Episode 30

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Published on:

29th Oct 2025

What to Do When the World Is on Fire (Literally) ☄️

In a world that’s both metaphorically and literally on fire, it can feel nearly impossible to figure out how the hell to live without either feeling like you’re gaslighting yourself into “normalcy” or getting so paralyzed by eco-anxiety that you can’t function. 

In this episode, Valerie and Emerson dive into all things Eco-Anxiety & Planet Grief, as well as steps you can take to navigate a burning world without getting STUCK in the apathetic loop of grieving our Mother Earth.


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DISCLAIMER: But For Real Podcast is not a substitute for individualized mental health treatment or healthcare. This podcast is solely for entertainment and educational purposes. If you are in crisis, please utilize crisis support services, such as the Crisis Text Line (Text START to 741741 in the US) or the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: (Call 988 in the US), or visit www.findahelpline.com for international resources.

Transcript
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Welcome to, but for Real, a variety show podcast co-hosted by two therapists who

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also happened to be loud mouth feminist.

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I'm Valerie, your

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resident elder, millennial child free cat lady.

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And I'm Emerson, your resident, chronically online Gen Z brat.

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And on the show we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take

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you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

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You'll definitely laugh

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and TBH sometimes maybe cry a little because this is a silly and serious show.

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Buckle up my friends, and let's get into today's episode.

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And we're back.

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Hi listeners.

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Good morning.

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Yeah, we're here.

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Good afternoon, good evening, and goodnight.

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Wherever you might be.

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Wherever you are.

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You know, time zones matter.

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Yeah, we matter where you are.

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Okay.

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We're gonna get controversial this morning 'cause I'm feeling spicy.

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Ooh.

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Okay.

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Wait for it.

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What?

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Today's question.

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Okay.

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What is a trend or sustainability in quotations practice that

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you just can't get behind?

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All hot takes are welcome.

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Okay.

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There's no repercussions we're, we can just say whatever we want.

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There's never consequences.

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There will be no consequences for your behavior.

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Never.

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Actually.

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That's

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the hot

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take.

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Oh my God.

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Okay, so mine is Um, and hear me out.

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Yes.

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Hear me out and I will.

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I start to break out into emotional hives with the phrase

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zero waste and Oh, I understand.

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Oh, sure.

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The mentality.

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I understand, yes, the goal, the intention, the ethos.

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But I think that there are some people, and I mean we all have our hobbies.

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And, but truly, I feel like sustainability has to be truly a hobby

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for you if you take it to that level.

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And also it's just easier to do in certain places.

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Yeah.

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Like certain cities are just, they have lots of resources, lots of,

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you know, fill stations, whatever.

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We're composting.

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Yeah.

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So like, you know, we're getting our shampoo at the good, fill

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down the street, whatever.

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I, I do wanna do more of that, so I'm definitely open Sure.

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Yes.

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To more.

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Intentionality around reducing my like single use kind of stuff.

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Yeah.

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But the idea of zero waste, uh, makes me feel like I just wanna crawl

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into a hole and not try anything.

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Yeah.

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It makes you feel bad.

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It's, it's

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kind of the all or nothing, right.

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Where it's like it just immobilizes instead of empowers.

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Yes, totally.

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And I'm sure some people don't feel that way and good for them heard.

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What about you?

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What's your controversy?

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I was a nanny for a really long time.

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Oh yeah.

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I forget that.

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Isn't that silly?

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How would you be my nanny business?

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What business do I have watching kids?

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Not because there's anything wrong, you know, in an inappropriate way, right?

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If I'm just like, you know, like who am I?

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I am a child, right?

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No, I'm a baby.

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Um, so I was, there was a time where I was with a certain crunchy granola mom group.

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And really loved those divas.

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And they were like, baby, did you vote yet?

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And I was like, mama, I'm not a citizen.

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I can't.

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So we had a really great time, but they were like, Hey, we're

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switching to cloth diapers.

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Okay, just take them off.

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But I was like, Hey, your kids are shifting and piss in these diapers.

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And that.

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Well, that is

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what occurs

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in diaper.

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Well, yeah.

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And listen, I'm like, do kids go through a butt load?

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Lack of a better word.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Diapers.

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Yes.

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And are they probably really bad for the environment?

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Probably.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And also like, I'm so sorry, I can't be, for a lack of a better word,

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scraping your kids' shit out into the toilet and then leaving a shit

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full diaper on your washing machine.

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Because don't worry, like I'll wash it like they didn't wanna burden me.

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But also I was like, this is.

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Gross.

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I have a hot take.

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Yeah.

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On this.

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What if I'm scared what you're about to say.

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' cause you know, we, we've taken care of cats, both of us.

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Oh yes.

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Right?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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A litter box.

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I'm like, the litter helps obscure, you know, it dries.

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It's to the poop.

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Poop.

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It's, you know, I scoop it out, I take it for treasure.

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I don't have to, it's over.

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Right?

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So it's done.

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What if you threw, you just throw the used cloth diaper into a

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litter box, let it hang out there

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for a couple of days, and then you scrap.

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That's like the worst baby shower game ever.

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You know, when like someone's eating a Twix bar out of a diaper.

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I'm like, ladies, why?

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Let's, let's do something.

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No, I'm like, I don't give a fuck if it's a Snickers, hun.

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Oh, this is a Pampers.

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This is gonna be a good episode, you guys.

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Wow.

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I'm, we're already off the chain here.

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I I kind of was nauseous this morning and I'm really not helping myself.

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So let's move on, ladies and gent and everyone in between.

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Now it's time for our first segment, tea and Crumpets, where we tell you

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what we can't stop talking about.

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This week.

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I fear both of ours are depressing, honey.

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Like this episode is maybe getting depressing, but

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we're gonna laugh through it.

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Y all we are, we, because that's our style to, so of course I had to

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pick the um, Katrina documentary.

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Katrina Come Hell or high Water Oof.

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On Netflix.

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Now listen, I'm gonna be very earnest.

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Yeah.

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Like, I didn't grow up here, ladies and folks, so like, I

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knew about Katrina, obviously.

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Yeah.

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'cause I'm not living under eight fucking rock.

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But like did I know right about Katrina?

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No.

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Yeah.

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Like

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I always, I was like, there's always been this like, kind of like

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online mostly of where I've had, had heard it or in conversations

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about like the racial undertones.

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And I really just, I was like, I don't know why.

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Um, I mean, I, I could pretty much guess right, but like, just seeing it

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and like seeing these people's stories and the fallout and j and just how it

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was all handled, I was like, oh my God.

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Like this is, you know, and I think this was 2005, so like, we're like here on

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this 20th anniversary of this documentary, you know, so it's, it's just such an

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important cultural watch, I think.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, you know, if you were.

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Living in the states in the time, like revisiting that to like you 20

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years ago of how you were learning about this, how the media was talking

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about this incredible tragedy, um, to like what it is now and probably

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like this still the fallout for these individuals that were impacted

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by this, like insane thing, right?

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Um, depressing and sad, but like so much unity of New Orleans.

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Like I've been to New Orleans twice and.

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Um, every time the two times I was there, I was like, this place is interesting.

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Mm. Like it just has a bit of mysticism to it.

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Yes.

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And the, the ax accent tree I'm falling in, there's still

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like the southern hospitality.

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Like it is just like such an interesting place.

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You can tell it's so culturally rich.

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Yeah.

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Um, so it just gave, gave me like an even different perspective

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on that, on the city and stuff.

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So highly recommend.

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Okay.

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You watch it.

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I will give yourself time though, because like it's three episodes.

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Okay.

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They're like over an hour a piece.

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Yeah.

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So like I was really having to like metabolize this over the past few weeks.

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Yeah.

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'cause I was like, whoa.

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Yeah, it's a lot.

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Okay.

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What's your truth?

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What's going on the list?

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Okay, so mine is also kind of heavy.

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Yeah.

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Very heavy.

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Um, the new PT Anderson movie.

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One battle after another.

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Okay.

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So this is the one starring DiCaprio.

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I'm a boy, you know.

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Um, and by the way, one thing I did not know, 'cause PT Anderson is like.

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Pro Prodigy, director of his generation.

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Okay.

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I think born in 1970, you know, gen X, um, he has directed Magnolia.

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There will be blood.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, God, I'm forgetting a bunch of the other ones, but, you know, just prolific.

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Yeah.

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And a lot of his films have been Oscar nominated, um, the Master Phantom Thread.

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But he has been married to Maya Rudolph for 24 years.

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I did not know this until I was on Wikipedia this morning.

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I'm like, and in Hollywood, that's a fucking accomplishment.

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24 years is like 87, right?

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What do you mean?

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I'm so impressed.

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But anyway, so this film, some of y'all probably already know.

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Do you know anything about it?

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Mm-hmm.

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I, my mom was saying when she told me about it before we saw it, it's

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like kind of shocking that yeah, this was even allowed to be, I think it

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was my mom who said this shocking that it was allowed to be made, mm,

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allowed to be released in this era.

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Oh my God.

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Like I'm sure if the Tangerine toddler were to go and see it, he would

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demand but it be pulled from theaters because basically it is sort of like

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kind of, you know, our timeline, but things have unfolded a little bit

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differently in this fictional world.

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And the revolutions have been going on.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, you know, militant revolutionary groups, which is

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like, it's really understandable why that happens yet.

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Sure.

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It's also really scary and anyway, and it's just, uh,

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it is fascism Sounds intense.

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One wild.

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Yeah.

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Um, and it's really, yeah, very extremely timely, very intense.

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Um, lots of like ice kind of shit.

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Um, and I will say though, and this is, mm, okay, well I, it's not a spoiler, but

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I'll say as heavy as it is, there is a little bit of uplift too, which I needed.

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I made sure, and it's almost three hours long.

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Woof.

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Okay.

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Good to know.

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Now it's time for Step Into My office where you get advice from your

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favorite professionally qualified, personally peculiar therapist.

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Dear m and Val, over the past few years, I feel like I have been grieving the

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world I thought I would grow into, and the despair really gets to me.

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Every time I see a news alert about flooding or fires, I feel sick and

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angry like I should be doing something, but I don't even know where to start.

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And I find myself feeling constantly in paralysis surrounding this.

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When I try to talk about it with friends or family, they tell me

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to just focus on the positive or enjoy what you can control.

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But it feels like gaslighting to act normal when really everything is changing.

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How do I care about the planet without drowning in guilt or apathy?

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Sincerely crying into my eco bricks.

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What's an eco brick?

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What It's where you just like take like huge water bottles and you fill it of all

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your plastic and your stuff and then you ship it out to them and they use them as

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bricks, literally to like build buildings.

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Wow.

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Wait, so like consumers can buy these.

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No, like consumers make, so like you're taking all my plastic.

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Yeah.

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So say I have like my granola bar wrappers, I'm shoving that

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into like a big Gatorade bottle.

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Oh.

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And I'm really compressing it down.

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And then you ship them off to eco bricks and then they send them worldwide.

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I didn't like, didn't know that.

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Yeah.

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It's, I feel like this is kind of your thing.

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Yeah.

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I'm like, hello.

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It's like an interesting way.

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Have you ever done it?

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No.

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I mean, I, I attempted to over COVID.

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Yeah.

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Um, but I was, I mean, it takes a really long time Sure.

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Because you're really compressing all of your crap down into this

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like, huge fucking water bottle.

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Yeah.

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So I think I like, I mean, I barely did like a gallon.

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It's good

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to know though.

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I mean, there's always things being innovated.

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Yes.

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And you know, I get some of it, like what is the, I wish I

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remembered the name of the company.

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There was a company who, and we'll get back to you listener, I promise.

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Um, but who created these like little envelopes that basically something to

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like take back where it's like, oh yeah, if, like, there's stuff like clothing

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that you can't donate, say like used socks with holes or underwear, whatever,

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like undershirts that are always stained or whatever that like, send it to

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them and they'll take it and, but I'm just like, but what happens with it?

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Right.

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Because unfortunately, look, uh, in that, you know, buy Now documentary, they cover.

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How so many of the donated clothing and like, oh, we're just gonna collect

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donations and send it to Africa, whatever.

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And then their fucking shores are just covered in these clothes

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and shoes that they can't use.

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Yeah.

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And so anyway, it's like, you know, it's sometimes interesting to wonder with

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these different, um, innovations mm-hmm.

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Are they really being, are they effectively used out in the wild?

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Yeah.

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Or is it like a good idea that kind of like doesn't really execute?

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Yeah.

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And probably case by case.

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Right.

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Check

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out Eco Bricks.

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I feel like they actually maybe do like, okay.

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Honor it.

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I learned about them through TikTok, actually.

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Amazing.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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TikTok is a credible source.

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Well, yes.

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They're the DSM.

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What do you, what do you say to our listener?

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I mean, I, I feel like I wrote this for one, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm 26

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years old and I'm like the whale.

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It is, I'm scared.

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Yeah.

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You know, like I'm making a little song.

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Yeah.

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I'm freaked out what I'm fire.

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Okay.

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Work choir.

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Um, but listener, like, you're obviously totally not alone in this.

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And like, I really want to illuminate and, and feel you on the paralysis part, right.

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Where it's like, do I do eco bricks and does that feel good enough?

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Yeah.

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And is he always good enough?

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Like this episode And what I really want for us to talk

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through is the fact that like.

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Yes.

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What is the personal responsibility and like, how do we, like, bring, you

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know, in this community and like, I'm very unfortunately a lot across the

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western world, but more specifically, what we can ground in, in the

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United States where we live is like.

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We're not on board.

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That's like some of the other countries are in terms of sustainability.

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Yeah.

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And that really sucks.

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And like that is a systemic issue.

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Yes.

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Um, that again, like you can be really putting a ton of pressure on

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yourself here to feel like you have no control over flooding and fires

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because in a way you, you don't Yeah.

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You know, like we can't control these natural disasters on like

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very individual right basis.

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We have to look at it largely and more systemically.

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And that is really challenging.

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And disorienting because it takes years, right, to get stuff rolling

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and to get people on board.

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Um, and so it, I mean, it really is just like such a delicate, this

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is a delicate topic, um, just given the times that we are in, right?

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Because I really think of this last part of like drowning in guilt or apathy.

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I feel like I, the pendulum swings for me in that way where I feel really

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guilty that I'm not doing stuff, and then I fall into that apathetic well.

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Well, the planet is just gonna fucking die anyway, so I'm not gonna

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have a savings account or a 401k.

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You know, I can fall into that.

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Like, I don't give a fuck apathetic mindset and it's really hard.

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Um, and I really think there is, it sounds like, you know, this like

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paralysis part, but I really wonder like, are you checking in with like

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what is like sustainable and realistic about sustainability within yourself?

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Yeah.

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That seemed wordy, but like yeah, I, I feel, I hear the

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guilt and like the despair.

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And the frustration where everyone's like, just focus on the positive.

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And you know, it's not always about the toxic positivity and like, if

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we are only like pen, like in the pendulum of like bad to bad, like

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what else is, what else is there?

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You know?

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Yeah.

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So that's the

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hope.

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That reminds me.

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I was just listening to the beginning of, um, Scott Berry Kaufman's new

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book Rise Up, which I'm like, we need to recommend this to so many people.

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Um, it's a, it's a very nuanced to look at sort of like.

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Kind of like how we get victimized and, and can feel entitled to,

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you know, especially people who've been through a lot of shit.

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Yeah.

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And then like, how does that really serve us?

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But he talks about like, it's not about either extreme of like toxic agency, pull

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yourself up by your bootstraps, like no matter what happened to you kind of thing.

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But it's also not toxic passivity, like, oh well you had a horrible childhood,

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so it's fine that you're an asshole.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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And so I feel like the same applies here.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, we're not saying like, well if the government's not gonna do anything,

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then you just need to be zero waste.

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Right.

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If you, if you give a shit.

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But at the same time, just because it can feel, uh, overwhelming, we don't wanna

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fall into that toxic passivity either.

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No.

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And just be like, well, it's too much, so I guess I won't do anything.

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Right.

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And I feel like this comes up a lot with like the, um.

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Which is, is an environmental issue of animal agriculture.

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Mm. Right.

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It is like people, you know, if they find out that I'm vegan, they're often like,

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oh my God, that's, that must be so hard.

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Yeah.

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First of all, I'm like, well, it's really not, and I can give a spiel

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on that another day, but it's also like, okay, I'm not saying that.

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I mean, yes, there's a value of abolition culture and, and you

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know, no empty cages, right?

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Yeah.

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But.

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That's not where we're gonna start.

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We're not gonna get there in my lifetime time.

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No.

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So if someone would just eat a little bit less meat Right.

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That would be dairy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That would be impactful.

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Sure.

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For the environment.

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And so I think the same applies with like all of our sort of choices is like,

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yes, every day we have a lot of choices.

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Mm-hmm.

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And can we start to steer, take agency with some of those

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choices to decide what would be.

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Like a kinder choice here.

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Yes.

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For the wider community.

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And when we are living in such an individualistic culture, there's a reason

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why the US even compared to a lot of other Western countries, like in Europe,

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they're all, you know, climate accord.

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They like, they're, they're on board, they're on it.

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They're working on it.

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I think it's the, the pros and cons of our.

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Sense of like independence.

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Yeah.

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And freedom and like, don't tell me what to do.

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Mm-hmm.

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Backfires with this kind of stuff.

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And that's why we're so far behind.

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But we can still keep pushing our legislators when we have the opportunity.

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Yes.

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Um, look at who we're voting into, office, et cetera.

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But even, even when we can't feel very encouraged in that realm, we

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can look at where is there room in my choices without having to feel like

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I have to overhaul my whole life.

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Snaps for you.

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That was the tea.

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And now it's time for the DSM.

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In our DSM, all varieties of dysfunction, spiraling, and meltdowns are welcome.

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In this segment, we break down complicated concepts and common misconceptions

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about mental health, wellbeing, and tell you what we really think.

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Of course, we are here to talk about eco anxiety, climate anxiety, all the

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things about navigating a literally burning world, woof, how to not

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get stuck in that apathetic loop.

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Um, of grieving our mother Earth.

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Yeah.

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Um, our mother.

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Oh my gosh.

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Okay, so what do we mean by all of this?

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Um, and there again, there's different terms, eco anxiety,

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climate anxiety, et cetera.

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That knot in your tum where you're just like another fucking wildfire, right?

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Another, which, by the way, I read a really fascinating article on, um.

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What did they call it?

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Not controlled burn, because it's kind of like, well, we can't really control fire.

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Yeah.

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But, um, uh, I, I am not gonna remember the word, but basically

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like, we're burning on purpose, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and that for a long time, that wasn't done because of fears.

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But the fact that it wasn't done is part of another reason why we have

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all of these wildfires happening.

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Yeah.

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And so there are groups out there doing more training for that type of,

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of burning, even among citizens who are doing it on their own property.

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Okay.

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Right.

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So that's really cool.

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But anyway, it is burning, but we can, we can burn it better.

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Um, so yes.

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Um, the existential dread about climate change, about biodiversity loss, we

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are in a major extinction event that is major, the first caused by humanity.

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Uh, this sense that we are losing the world as we know it.

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That mm-hmm.

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Oh my gosh.

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The David Attenborough of like, don't I'm more than you.

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Yes.

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You just turn on like, and I don't, yeah.

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What is that like bio biography thing that he did that was like.

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You know, just like the him reflecting on how much he's seen?

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Yes.

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The, the change in the ecosystems and biodiversity just during his lifetime.

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It makes me wanna cry.

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I literally, and listeners like, like, it's okay if we cry, we

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can cry and we can, we can find the laughter in these moments.

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Um, research defines this eco anxiety as this sort of chronic

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fear of environmental doom.

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Mm-hmm.

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Rightfully so, right?

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This is, this is real, this planetary or ecological grief, the mourning that comes

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with it, the heartbreak over the species.

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Extinction seasons being different than what they were even five or 10 years ago.

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Yes.

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Um, I mean, as I just experienced last weekend trying to run a Spartan

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race in 87 degree weather in October.

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And almost passing.

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I was gonna say, passing away.

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That's a little, uh, a little extreme.

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Passing out though.

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Almost passing out.

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Well, yes.

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Um, and then, you know, it's, some of what we're experiencing is

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urgent and real and happening now.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we can see a clear trajectory of, you know, where this is going.

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Um, barring some extreme changes, but also we're experiencing

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the anticipatory grief of it.

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Yes.

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Of, okay.

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Yes.

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You and I in our lifetimes.

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There's gonna be still quite a lot of biodiversity that we get to enjoy.

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Yeah.

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Um, and even, I mean, even as someone for me who's like not planning on having

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a continued legacy of my bloodline, I, I don't, you know, I don't have

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that personal of like, oh, what are my grandchildren gonna experience?

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But like, I want the future generations of both humanity and

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the other beings to experience that.

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So I still have the anticipatory grief.

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Mm-hmm.

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Even though our generations.

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Will not be the ones most harmed by this change right now.

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Sure.

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Well, your legacy is like the, that's like your personal

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definition of your legacy, right?

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Yeah.

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Of like what you want to see, keep going, change happen.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's important.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and just like what, like the rise of this, I feel like everyone, you know,

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kind of back to the listener right?

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For step into my office where everyone, you know, they're kind of starting to

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talk to family and friends about it.

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We're kind of experiencing this like.

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Conversational cultural rise around this conversation because it is like

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the crisis is no longer abstract.

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Right.

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I feel like it used to when I was little.

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Yes.

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I feel like I used to be like the world.

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Right.

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Also, I'm a kid, so I don't have concrete thinking and whatever, but like warming.

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Yeah.

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No, I was very much like, this is a concept.

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Now I'm like, ah, you know, it's, it's, it is knocking at the door.

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Yeah, it is saying, I am here with our heat waves, with our hurricanes,

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with our smoked field skies with.

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Forest fires.

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I mean, it's here.

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Um, I threw down this, uh, really interesting 10 country study.

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10,000 young people were surveyed, I believe.

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So this Hickman, uh, from the lan explanatory health 60% said

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they're worried about climate change and nearly half said it

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affects their daily functioning.

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So I think there is, again, I'm always kind of looping back into like.

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The Gen Z of it all do young people.

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Uh, we are having a really hard time with apathy, right?

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Like across like the younger generations.

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Everyone, gen Z and Gen A like, don't care.

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We don't care the world.

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We don't care about a job, we don't care about the climate, corporate

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ladder, everything's fucked.

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You know, we're just very apathetic.

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Um, and so to see like that 60% is like worried about

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climate change is interesting.

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Yeah.

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Um, you know, tag on that 24 7 doom scroll, just like that

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surplus of information that we have at any given time, lack of

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meaningful governmental action.

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We just kind of have that recipe for emotional overload with this stuff.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I don't know, I, I, I, again, kind of back to the listener where

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some people kind of, oh, I just think I've got the right side of things.

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And like, sh yes.

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We have to like, think about the glimmers.

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We have to think about that middle path.

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But like eco anxiety is not irrational.

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Um, it is rational.

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It is our nervous system saying like, Hey, this is like not fine.

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Mm-hmm.

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This doesn't feel good.

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I am worried.

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I'm concerned.

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Like what is going to happen again?

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That anticipatory ness.

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So like this shit is on the rise.

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Like we are seeing Greta Thunberg in her Greta Thunberg of it all, you know?

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And it is real.

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So looking at how this shows up, right?

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Again, that emotional kind of.

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Pieces, dread, guilt, rage, you know, helplessness, that apathy.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, the cognitive parts.

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So catastrophizing, right?

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We're here and you know, oh, so if I don't do my eco brick, blah, blah, blah.

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You know, it just like this anxiety that's there.

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The spiraling, the thought about collapse, um, the physical symptoms

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of this, like feeling fatigued.

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I, when I'm too plugged into stuff or not having boundaries, I mean like.

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It causes tension.

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It can cause stress.

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Yeah.

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The social components of that, especially again, with this listener.

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Are you withdrawing then, from talking to people about this kind of stuff?

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Are you having conflict with family over sustainability in the political

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sphere, in the state of the world right now and you know, having

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those apathetic reactions, um.

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Yeah, there's a 2022 meta analysis that we plug, we'll plug in the show

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notes, but it found that eco anxiety correlates with higher rates of

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anxiety, depression, and insomnia.

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Mm-hmm.

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So we're all just up at night thinking what the hell's gonna happen?

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Yeah.

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You know, it's keeping people up and like this matters.

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Right, right.

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Too much dread leads to paralysis.

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Leads to the, too little of it all leading to that apathy where again, like we've

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just swung this pendulum over, where now it's immobilized, nothing's happening.

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We're in that kind of learned helplessness even where no one is empowered, no

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one feels like they can take steps.

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Um, so that sweet spot is that engaged concern.

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How are, how are we doing enough to motivate action

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without completely burning out?

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Uh, copy and paste this to literally everything in life.

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Copy and paste it to politics.

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Everything right.

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These, some interesting studies show eco anger.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I know you're gonna love this.

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Mm-hmm.

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Eco anger.

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So directed towards systemic injustices, predicts better mental health and

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more activism than hopelessness.

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Mm. So that's from the Journal of Climate Change and Health.

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We'll plug that again in the show notes.

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But that eco anger that just like really tickled me.

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I was like, yeah, because we're not mad at the, I'm not mad at our mother.

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Yeah.

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You know, like, I'm not mad at her.

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I, I'm like, girl, are you?

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I love you.

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Are you okay?

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Yeah.

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You know, I care about that stuff and.

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Um, where, you know, we were, we had our team meeting this morning

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and I was talking about like going and moving my body and like, in

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a joking way, being like, yeah, I feel like I can like fight a man.

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You know, I could kill a man.

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Just like having that strength where, um, I saw a post on Instagram the other

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day and it was like me, when I realized a fascist was lifting this morning, I'm

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like, that's what got me to the gym.

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And so it's like those small things where it's like sometimes if you

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can't, if you can plug in to like.

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Ah, you know, like the feeling and like that anger or that rage, like metabolize

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that and use that for good damnit.

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Right, right.

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Like that's accessible to you, if so.

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Mm-hmm.

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And if that's not accessible and it does feel more of that, you know,

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helplessness, like, and like not feeling empowered, that's okay too.

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But like, just be checking in with yourself where you are.

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And again, if it's having those like longer effects on your

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mental health, um, you know, like feeling mad about the crisis.

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Again, it's that sweet spot.

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It can engage you and it can be healthier overall than just numbing out.

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Yeah.

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From stuff which we're having a huge cultural problem with right now.

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Mm-hmm.

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I would say, um, and again, the, the anger, how that can metabolize

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into grief, you know, like that collectively legitimizes the pain that

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everyone's experiencing right now.

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And again, when we're in collective experience.

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Is that then reconnecting us to meaning?

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It makes me just think of existential meaning making.

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Are we with people and able to say like, okay, we're always

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stronger in numbers, right?

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Yeah.

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Like it's cheesy in a way as we're like saying that, but it is true.

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So it's true.

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Being able to, you know, have that There any additions or

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anything about that stuff?

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Well, yeah, like the, the mad, um, and, and how anger can be immobilizing force.

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Um, I think is so true.

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And like, of course, my hope as like a deep pacifist, um, yeah,

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is like the, the anger can be more directed at the systems and Oh yeah.

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Not each other.

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Right.

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And, uh, and, and used as a source for mobilization and action.

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Um, there's a great, and I'm forgetting the name of the specific exercise, but,

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um, in Joanna Macy's work that reconnects, which I'll share a bit about in a moment.

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There a lot of it is group based work and listeners.

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Mm. I highly recommend like go on the work that reconnects

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website, look at their events.

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If you are really drawn to this topic, get yourself if

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you can, to an in-person event.

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Mm. I went to one in maybe 2017, that was like a few days, and it was hosted

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in this eco village in North Carolina.

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Wow.

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Like cool.

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Seeing like that way of living.

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Mm-hmm.

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But, um.

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It's this circle that you, um, you have and there's some props kind of

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in the middle, like some dried leaves.

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Uh, an empty bowl.

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And basically, um, you can go to the center and take any one of the, like,

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the one that represents emptiness, the one that represents sorrow.

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Mm-hmm.

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The one that represents anger, which I think is like a stick from a tree, right?

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Yeah.

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Um, and, and while you're in the center, you're just speaking your rage

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for the world, your speaking, your sorrow for the world and the earth.

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Um, or your, you know, this feeling of emptiness or numb.

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Um, and that is so powerful to be holding the group space for people to

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go and connect with those experiences.

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So work that reconnects.

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Um, and she created this thing called the Spiral, which I think

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is a really, really helpful way.

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Of us getting into that, um, what she calls active hope instead of

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the paralysis or some naive hope of like, it's probably gonna be fine.

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Right.

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Right.

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Um, so the spiral, you begin in gratitude because we have to buoy ourselves.

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Yes.

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Right.

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Like, this is heavy shit.

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We gotta begin in like gratitude for what, you know, the fact that I can still

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enjoy the fall leaves and whatever else.

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And, and so we begin in gratitude.

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Then we turn toward our pain

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because

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so often we don't.

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We're this culture that sort of chases good feelings and to be really willing

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to hold the discomfort and the reality of what's going on with the world, we have

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to be willing to turn toward our pain.

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The next step is we see with new and ancient eyes, so we

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get creative, we think of.

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Innovations like eco bricks mm-hmm.

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And things that, that, you know, can actually, I mean, there's a lot of

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potential here for AI to be part of the solution, which is really exciting.

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Yes.

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Um, so, and then ancient eyes are, you know, what did the indigenous people do?

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How did they live in the world?

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And this inter being, um.

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And then from that we go forth, what are we gonna go forth like with this,

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having moved through this experience to take out into the world to maybe

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shift some of our day-to-day choices, um, or, and, or perspectives.

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So I love, love the spiral and the work that reconnects and this idea

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of active hope or also as I forget the academic that talked about

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unimaginable hope, but that Emily Nago.

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Video where she talks about this, like, it's not, it, it doesn't have to

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be a hope that we believe it's gonna get a lot better in our lifetimes.

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Sure.

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But how do we want to show up anyway?

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Yeah.

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And keep marching toward that arc of justice and healing anyway.

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Um, so anyway, all that to say, there are these modalities, like the work

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that reconnects ecos, psychology, deep ecology, ecotherapy, that sort of bring

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together an opportunity for us to.

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To turn toward this pain.

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Yeah, right.

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To acknowledge it.

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'cause I get so frustrated with the fact that a lot of western psychology is rooted

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in this, you know, highly individualistic thing where it's like, oh, you think

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that you're anxious about the climate?

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What's really going on?

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Right.

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Is it your daddy issues?

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Yeah.

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You hate yourself.

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Oh my God, do you?

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It's like, yes, I do.

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And also the world is dying like CBT that maybe, um.

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So, and obviously yes.

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There are times where when eco anxiety, climate anxiety becomes

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untenable for someone Sure.

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We wanna help them move through that in a way where they can honor the pain.

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Yes.

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And also not have it be like this, you know, consuming their every moment.

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Right.

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Totally.

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That's, you know, get support from a professional Of course.

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Ecos Psychology as a field, uh, which I've done some study in with

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Andy Fisher, who's amazing, wrote a book called Radical Ecos Psychology.

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Mm. Originally coined by Theodore Roak in the 1990s and, and really it's not.

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It's not, we will get to Ecotherapy in a minute, which is sort of more

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what we might think of as like, oh, let's combine therapy with nature.

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Mm-hmm.

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But ecos psychology is more of a, A paradigm shift.

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Yeah.

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Of looking at the idea that our modern mental illness,

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and especially the rise of it.

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Has a whole lot to do with our modern disconnection from the natural world and

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you know, abuse of the natural world.

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Um, so the ecological and psychological crises are really interconnected,

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two sides of the same coin.

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So we cannot simply treat the mental illness and then not

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worry about the other stuff.

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Yeah.

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Like it is fundamentally interconnected.

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And then the ecotherapy or nature-based therapy, you know, forest bathing,

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all of that kind of stuff is like.

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Let's, how do we put this into practice?

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Um, the animus, uh, institute, uh, bill Plotkin work, uh, with wild

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mind and nature and the human psyche.

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Um, there's a lot of really cool work out there of, of looking at

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how you can integrate this, um, whether that's, you know, therapeutic

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gardening, working in the wilderness, animal assisted therapy mm-hmm.

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Um, to, and, and all of those can be incredibly healing

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experiential modalities.

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Um, even just, uh, walk and talk therapy, which we can do right

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here in our office, um, around the neighborhood, which is really nice.

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And even biophilic design, whether that's, I love biophilia, that's Yeah.

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Like at your home that you bring in the plants.

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Mm-hmm.

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And even if you can't have real plants in certain spaces, that research actually

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shows that, you know, if I even, I remember Emily Naski came into a training

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that I was doing in my sex therapy.

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Certification.

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She had these like plants behind her and she's like, oh, these plants are

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here for you because you're gonna have a better, more engaged experience

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seeing me with this life around me.

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And that is just so cool that, you

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know, that's so funny.

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Like, I have clients quick, like, tangent, tangent, but like, I have clients when

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I am working from home and I have a, a couple of them, every time I see them,

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they're like, did you add more plans?

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And most of the, sometimes I do, right?

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And then sometimes I haven't be, but the I, and I didn't even think

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about it in that way where they're, they like seeing me just like in

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like covered by all of my friends,

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you know?

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And that is having an impact on their experience of that session,

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whether they're conscious of it or not, which is really cool.

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Really cool.

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And our offices, even our indoor spaces here at the Gaia Center,

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which we'll get to Gaia in a moment.

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Yes.

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Is, you know, uh, it's biophilic design.

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All of our offices are named after sort of different, you

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know, nature spaces right now.

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If you're watching the video, you can see our mural in the meadow.

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Um, so we try to bring that into even our indoor spaces.

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Um, and Gaia, you know, Gaia Fury, James Lovelock, this idea

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of all systems are interconnected.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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And so that's, uh, just a core part of our ethos.

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Um, again, the research backs up that even brief exposure to

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natural settings can really reduce rumination, stress depressive symptoms.

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Yes.

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That this contact with green spaces can lower cortisol,

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improve emotional resilience.

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So if someone's doing specifically ecotherapy as a desire to.

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En enhance their connection with the natural world.

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You know, they might do that in ritual.

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They might, um, practice mindfulness in nature.

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Find a sit spot that you come back to periodically.

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You watch the environment around.

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You change throughout the year.

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You get really familiar with the little ecosystem around your sit spot.

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Um, you plant trees, which we're gonna do as a team together in a couple of weeks.

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Um, writing letters to lost landscapes.

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There's a lot of the work that reconnects.

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Exercises that are like deeply, like you're speaking to, you know, an

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ecosystem, or you're speaking from an ancestor seven generations or into

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the past or future, and just holding all of the emotion with that, that

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can be healing and reconnecting.

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And of course there's all of the existential layer of this dissolving the

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illusion that the planet is something that's outside of us, or that nature

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is a place that we go to with our tent.

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Right?

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Like we are in nature.

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Even if you're in an urban setting.

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We are nature.

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We are in nature.

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Yeah.

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Um, and our nervous systems and ecosystems are intimately intertwined.

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Whew.

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No, I'm like, wow.

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Yes.

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So as we always do, what helps and what doesn't.

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Mm. Right.

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What helps is naming it the eco anxiety as a normal reaction, a

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normal human experience to what we are experiencing in real time.

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It's not a pathology.

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It is not something to be, you know, overly getting pissy with your friend

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about that's having this experience.

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Right?

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Can we meet each other in curiosity about how we're

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feeling about this kind of stuff?

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Grounding in action again, checking in on that kind of personal pendulum.

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What's that engaged sweet spot?

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Those micro actions really do matter If you want eco brick, eco brick.

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I was talking shit about cloth diapers.

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If you wanna cloth diapers, baby do it.

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You know, like compost.

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Go vote.

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Like use your voice where it matters.

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Especially with voting, especially with legislation.

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Get on the asses of the people that are supposed to be running shit.

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Mm-hmm.

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Where you live.

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Um, join a climate group.

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Just talk about it, you know?

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That's okay.

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In that connection build or join those communities that share those values.

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So if you live in an apartment and I'm, and you're setting up a little garden and

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your neighbor is like, oh, this is cool.

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Hey, can I bring you some tomatoes after?

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That was one of my favorite thing.

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My neighbor brings us lettuce all the time in the summer.

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Mm-hmm.

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Just like those, like little things where we're just having this exchange.

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Yes.

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It's just like a nice opportunity, you know?

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Um, connecting again in that ritual, more of like that ecotherapy sense of self.

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So write a letter to the earth or plant something.

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Go get plants.

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We had a big plant knot infestation, but like that really

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connected me to those buggers.

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Like they're in my house, like, I'm like rehabbing, like I've

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been sticking my fingers in dirt.

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I'm with these friends, like I'm taking care of them, they're taking care of me.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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Um, it is okay again, if it is really becoming disorienting to

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you and you're having a hard time, go find you an eco therapist.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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Or, you know, go find someone that you can really flesh that out with.

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Um, have that nature-based work, trauma-informed mindfulness.

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Mm-hmm.

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Mindfulness.

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Mindfulness, mindfulness.

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Please turn towards it.

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Go stick your feet in the dirt out there and remind yourself that you're there.

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And then again, remind yourself that you're the nature.

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Mm-hmm.

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It is always within you.

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Um, and of course, boundaries.

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Y'all, please limit the intake of stuff.

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Please put the phone down please.

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I mean, take like.

Speaker:

Take a bazillion shots, alcoholic or non when we talk about boundaries and

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putting your fucking phone down on this podcast, but it's because it's true.

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And yeah, finding joy as an active resistance, like leaning

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into those feelings when they are there, again, have those internal

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external boundaries with self.

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What is not gonna help is pretending that you don't care in that.

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I'm, uh, I have to protect my p I'm gonna blow that sentiment up because

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everyone that says anybody, that's my, you're not protecting your piece.

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You're not giving a shit.

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You're not giving a shit, or you're being selfish, or you're just

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like, think you're doing something.

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Mm-hmm.

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Baby girl.

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Toxic.

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You're not toxic.

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Passivity honey.

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Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

It's there, you know, and also like shaming others for not doing enough.

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One of the biggest things I had to reckon with myself when I kind

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of started to understand what it means for me to, in quotations

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or in real time, be an activist.

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Is that I was meeting the people around me with this, with anger.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because I was angry.

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Yeah.

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And then I was angry at the people around me that weren't getting it,

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or weren't tapping in or didn't care.

Speaker:

I felt they didn't care or whatever.

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And I was meeting everyone with such this like bite.

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Yeah.

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Um, when really I didn't have a pot to piss in sometimes.

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Right.

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You know, and like shaming the people around me.

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And I've gone and tried to do this work mostly with my family, where I was like.

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Hey, remember in 2020 when I was like being awful?

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Sorry.

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Like, sorry about it.

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Sorry about that.

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I was really coming into my own stuff.

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Yeah.

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And I was meeting you with a lot of shame and like that wasn't okay.

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And so, and that wasn't the way to do the work.

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Right.

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And I think sometimes, especially when people get sort of newly

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activated in a cause, oh, I was in it, that's, we come in hot.

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Yeah.

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We come in judgy.

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Um, and that's, you know, sometimes like just a natural sort of phase of that.

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Yes.

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And I will say that like there, to me, there is a

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difference before, first of all.

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Even the people who are like, I'm trying to protect my piece.

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So like, I just don't think about that stuff.

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Right.

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I just like try not, don't look up like the movie.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Um, uh, we're not shaming them.

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No, but we're just saying that is not an effective mindset.

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No.

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And I think with the shaming others for not doing enough, it's more

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specifically like policing how to be a good environmentalist.

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The moral superiority.

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Right.

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It's, it's

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not about that.

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Please ground in like your own shit.

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Mm-hmm.

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And show up with the accountability.

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Right.

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Um, and again, just that hyper individualism, how that enacts anywhere.

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If I just recycle perfectly, maybe the polar bayers will come back, babe.

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It is not that like.

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It ain't that way.

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Right.

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You know, it's, it's like, and

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that's the, that's the mind fuck of it is like it's the both and Yes.

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Of yes.

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We actually do have to own our individual agency and be willing to make some

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changes if we wanna experience change.

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Yep.

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And also we can acknowledge that we gotta keep pushing for the external.

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Totally.

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Which I'm gonna add one more.

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What doesn't work is.

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Fucking politicizing an issue that should not be political.

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Mm. Right.

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And that's what's, uh, God, my heart dropped into my stomach the other day

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when I heard, um, that man say that climate change is the biggest, like

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political hoax or whatever, that, and I'm just like, deep breath inha.

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Right.

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Um, because it's not, and thank God, like this is where I'm like.

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You know, getting, getting your news from multiple sources,

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learning about what's out there.

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Yep.

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Is I learned in reading the monitor that there, there are

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conservative climate groups.

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They do exist.

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There are people who like maybe lean Right.

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Who see the reality of what's happening.

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It is not like, don't fall into a polarized trap of like, everyone

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who's like remotely right of center, doesn't believe in climate change.

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That's not true.

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And, and it should not be politicized, period.

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But really kudos to people if, I mean, we're in a, probably mostly an

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echo chamber here, but if there are people who lean in that direction

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and you still believe in fighting for the earth, and I know some of those

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people, thank you for being able to get outside of the politicized box of this.

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Hala.

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So,

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but for real, but for real.

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Eco anxiety isn't a sign that something is wrong with you.

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This deep pathology, it's just a sign that you are attuned to this world in crisis.

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You care deeply.

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Grief, of course, is a proof of love.

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We've talked about this and the fact that so many of us feel this way

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means that we haven't given up yet.

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That's that active hope.

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The goal isn't to fix everything.

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It's to be realistic, you know, to stay grounded.

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It's to stay human.

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You know?

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Like let yourself experience that rage or that heartbreak, the grief, the

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wonder, and still how reprioritizing the connection, the joy, the education,

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the leaning in the small acts of care.

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And just to sign this off, I just thought this was really interesting.

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What does it mean to love something that's dying and still choose to fight for it?

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Ah.

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I was like, dag can dagger through the heart.

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Oh yeah, I'm typing this out.

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And then I just went.

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I, I'm gonna need a blank blank.

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Took a walk, came back, finished the outline.

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I was like, woo.

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Yeah.

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What does it mean to love something that's dying and still choose to fight for it?

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Yeah.

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Amen.

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And now our musical segment.

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Now that's what I call rk.

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Where Emerson and I each share a song with each other each week as representatives

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of our respective generations.

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We tell you a little bit about the song or artist and then we press pause.

Speaker:

We share the song with each other, and then we come back for our live reaction

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and we're capturing it all on a Spotify playlist link in the show notes for you.

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So this is called Peace Train.

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Mm. Which is one of Kat Steven's, like hits from 1971.

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Wow.

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Um, and Kat Stevens also known as when he, um, converted to,

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to Islam, um, uh, Yusuf Islam.

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And this was a top 10 hit.

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Um, and this version of it.

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So he is playing in this.

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Um, but it is by a group called Playing for Change.

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Hmm.

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And so they do these things called the called song around the world.

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My mom and stepdad showed me this, and it is phenomenal.

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So this particular song features more than 25 musicians from 12 countries.

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So we've got use of Ka Stevens.

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Singing this beautiful white piano and this open air in Istanbul.

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Mm. And then we've got other musicians like Kemo, five time Grammy winner.

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We've got Grammy nominated Sese artist, Baba Ma. We've got all

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kinds of other incredible musicians playing in all parts of the world.

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Um, and then I'll just say a little bit more about this group playing for Change.

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They are a a B Corp, so a social purpose organization that is created to inspire

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and connect the world through music.

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Born through a shared belief that music has the power to break down boundaries

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and overcome distances between people.

Speaker:

The primary focus of Playing for Change is to record and film

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musicians performing in their natural environments, combining their talents

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and cultural power and innovative videos called Songs Around the World.

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And then they also have a Playing for Change Foundation that is

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a separate 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit.

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That supports mu music programs for children around the world.

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So you can find out more.

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Playing for change.com.

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Playing for change.org for the nonprofit.

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Uh, this is gonna make you cry.

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Hopefully.

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Me just like I'm just sensitive.

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I just like love.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Very real.

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Well, and I just like love seeing everyone's like culture.

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Yes.

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And like, I'm like, oh my God, everyone came to me.

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I know.

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I love, I'm like, oh my God.

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Everyone came together to like make this like it beautiful like that.

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We are the world of it all.

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Yes.

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You know, where like all of these instances, but it's just

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like, oh, I'm happy to be alive.

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And I'm, I know, grateful that I like get to like learn about.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Like where people are from and how we all like can contribute with one another.

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Like,

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yeah, I think it is like, oh my God, I haven't actually watched that many of

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their videos, but after being reminded of this, I'm gonna like go and, oh,

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I'm falling down the rabbit hole.

Speaker:

And I, and I, I was kind of like, oh, it's like a dopa No, I'm

Speaker:

like, it's deeper than dopamine.

Speaker:

Like, is it, is it oxytocin?

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Like I feel like this like deep warmth inside.

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Inside it feels like a hot, and like my cheeks hurt from smiling.

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Oh, I'm so glad that you liked it.

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Oh, to be a human.

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Yes.

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You got me with that one woman.

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Okay.

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What you got for us?

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Okay.

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This is so everything, so send it on.

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I mean, this is like, this is my childhood.

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I'm excited.

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I don't notice anything about, so I iconic.

Speaker:

So.

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This was released in 2009 by Walt Disney and Hollywood Records.

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This was a collaboration of Miley Cyrus, the Jonas Brothers,

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Demi Lovato and Selena Gomez.

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So this is Peak Disney?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Um, this was formed to promote Disney's friends for a Change.

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This was like a TV and radio campaign encouraging young fans to take action.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um.

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It's on environmental issues in four key areas.

Speaker:

So water, climate, waste, and habitat.

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Disney used to be the goat back in the day.

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Okay.

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Like we just kind of had, I, I would love all their little

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segments that they would do.

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And I do remember this.

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So kids were encouraged to like pledge online to adopt

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environmentally friendly habits before this shit was more politicized.

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Yes.

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Like everyone was just doing this shit, right?

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Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And like they had the ability to vote on how Disney would donate a million dollars

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into various environmental programs.

Speaker:

So like that stuff was just huge.

Speaker:

Um, it per the Wikipedia page is gonna grow me up, so send it on.

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Kind of had mixed reviews in 2023, though it was chosen as one of the

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100 greatest Disney songs of all time.

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Ooh.

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However, Leo Hickman of the Guardian criticized the artist as hypocritical

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and the song's lyrics as ineffective, noting that there are quote.

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No references at all to the environment to be found within the song.

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That just cracked me up because I, I was weird.

Speaker:

I mean, of course I was watching this in 2009 and I'm thinking, oh my God,

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these are all the, like, this is Hannah Montana, this is, you know, I, these were

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all the things that I loved at the time.

Speaker:

Um, but I still think it's sweet.

Speaker:

And I think the artists, uh, at the time they were like, I

Speaker:

think this has a great message.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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It's important to me.

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I'm happy to be a part of this project.

Speaker:

So I think it's cute.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

I am excited to listen.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

Can believe Yes.

Speaker:

I'm like, this was, you need to know that this was iconic at the time.

Speaker:

And there's just like tea, like Demi and Selena were besties.

Speaker:

Uhhuh.

Speaker:

Now they're kind of not like Nick and Miley were dating and then they weren't.

Speaker:

Like I was just, God, I couldn't believe the Disney Channel Inces the community.

Speaker:

It's giving high school.

Speaker:

Oh man.

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That's great.

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Welcome to the segment.

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Wait, what?

Speaker:

Where I filled Val in on all of the internet vernacular and lore

Speaker:

so that she doesn't end up being an irrelevant elder millennial.

Speaker:

So I saw this on a newsletter and sent it to you and was like,

Speaker:

you gotta help us unpack this.

Speaker:

This what the Gen Zs are saying.

Speaker:

Lock in?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

What the heck?

Speaker:

So our lock in it basically is just like, okay, after lock in and like of

Speaker:

course with Gen Z, we like use it for real and then we like don't use it.

Speaker:

So I'm like, oh my God, I have to clean my house.

Speaker:

I need to fucking lock in.

Speaker:

It's like, diva, you're cleaning the house, whatever.

Speaker:

Or it's like, I need to do my notes, I need to walk in.

Speaker:

So it's basically saying like, you need to focus without distraction.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

On something in, on an important thing.

Speaker:

Um.

Speaker:

Which is just like really poignant for our time when we are just like filled

Speaker:

with a distraction and also like lock in coming from TikTok, it's just like so meta

Speaker:

in that way where we're like, I need to lock in because everything's distracting.

Speaker:

Also, this is a trend on TikTok where we are the most distracted

Speaker:

ever scrolling our lives away.

Speaker:

So this is also kind of like the rebranded winter arc. Are you familiar?

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

So I feel like this like great lock in of 2025.

Speaker:

Is the, just like the one up of the winter arc. So this is just basically

Speaker:

all about getting your shit together within the last few months of the year.

Speaker:

Okay?

Speaker:

So you tie up any loose ends, you enter the next year with like a

Speaker:

fresh perspective, great habits.

Speaker:

So this is kind of interesting to me as even just like

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seasonally how we look at this.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Where I feel in years past where I'm like, this is actually the time

Speaker:

for me to now be like slowing down.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

Like the world is kind of slowing down, it's getting darker.

Speaker:

We're gonna be hibernating for a bit.

Speaker:

But I do think it's kind of interesting to like kind of have this like more

Speaker:

like darker and reflective time to still actively be trying to work

Speaker:

towards shit that matters to you.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Um.

Speaker:

So I'm doing 75 sparkling because I'm just a gerra.

Speaker:

Oh my

Speaker:

God.

Speaker:

I love the winter arc versus like, like 75 hard.

Speaker:

Like it just feels too like yeah, to me, like it's 75 hard.

Speaker:

Never has resonated with me.

Speaker:

Too rigid.

Speaker:

I did too.

Speaker:

Like intense.

Speaker:

Too rigid.

Speaker:

Too intense.

Speaker:

Like I don't drink alcohol anyways, so that part doesn't resonate.

Speaker:

Like I'm not working out twice for 45 minutes a day, bitch.

Speaker:

What the fuck?

Speaker:

Like, it's not happening.

Speaker:

So like my 75 sparkling.

Speaker:

Is I need, I just need to have some form of movement for 30 to 45 minutes a day.

Speaker:

Mm. I'm trying to get anywhere between like five to 10,000

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steps on a 10,000 step day.

Speaker:

That's awesome.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

On a day where I'm working all day, that's not happening.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I sit for my job.

Speaker:

I can't be like, Hey, so like, how's your week been?

Speaker:

And my clients are like, bitch, you're fired.

Speaker:

Please be still.

Speaker:

So yeah, I'm just making sure I'm prioritizing my fruit and veg.

Speaker:

I'm trying to spark joy in Huga.

Speaker:

So like that's a big, um, theme for me.

Speaker:

How am I enacting huga every day?

Speaker:

Um, how am I having a moment of gratitude every day?

Speaker:

Am I checking in with a loved one every day?

Speaker:

Um, so that's, I have like my dailies a weekly, a monthly.

Speaker:

I'll send you my stuff later.

Speaker:

I love it and I'll probably get more into 75 sparkling as I go, but I'm really

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enjoying this kind of like a little bit of micro challenge with myself.

Speaker:

I feel like I haven't been able to apply something like, something

Speaker:

like this for the past couple of years and it feels like my brand of

Speaker:

the great lock-in where I'm like.

Speaker:

This was a really, this has been like a hard year and like a really like

Speaker:

growth oriented year for me personally.

Speaker:

So this feels right, but you don't have to lean into the great lock-in or you

Speaker:

can do your own version of 75 Sparkling where, you know, you're just kind of

Speaker:

tying up the loose ends, or you just wanna feel like you can walk into this

Speaker:

next year with like a fresh perspective, clear some stuff out, like make, do,

Speaker:

do a bit of like winter, fall cleaning of your space, of your mind, right?

Speaker:

So.

Speaker:

I love that.

Speaker:

That's interesting concept.

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Yeah, and especially like, you know, we're, we're always sort of working on,

Speaker:

you know, our habits and our wellbeing, like, you know, a lot of us in this

Speaker:

culture, which is great, but I do think there's something special about like the

Speaker:

time contained nature of like the great lock-in or the 75 sparkling, where it's

Speaker:

like, listen, I'm not trying to say I am gonna stick with a hundred percent

Speaker:

of these things at this level forever.

Speaker:

No, because that's where I think we get screwed is where we're like.

Speaker:

We, we, we wanna change all of our habits and all at once.

Speaker:

All at once and, and forever.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And so I really like this idea of like, let's do a time contained where

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you are amping up that intentionality.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And time and effort a little bit more.

Speaker:

And then after that container is over, you decide like what stays

Speaker:

and what can fade, whatever.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's like a nice

Speaker:

like perspective.

Speaker:

It's like a good, like temperature check.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

For yourself where you're at in the ear, I think.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Amazing.

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And now for our last segment of the show.

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Welcome to Fire Dumpster Phoenix.

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It is rough out there, y'all.

Speaker:

And we need all the hope we can get.

Speaker:

It's time to go dumpster diving for some positive news and rides

Speaker:

from the leftover Happy Meal.

Speaker:

Ashes

Speaker:

together.

Speaker:

Can animals be any fucking cuter?

Speaker:

Oh my God.

Speaker:

The question, I just wanna bite them.

Speaker:

Oh my God.

Speaker:

I'm trying to, okay.

Speaker:

Steve Lamp plow Steve.

Speaker:

Sorry babe.

Speaker:

If I said that wrong of Victoria, Australia night was quite surprised

Speaker:

when he found his golden retriever Denny with a baby koala on her.

Speaker:

Denny.

Speaker:

Denny, stop.

Speaker:

You're kidding.

Speaker:

So he's just home and he's thinking, what the fuck?

Speaker:

He hears his dogs barking.

Speaker:

He's thinking, diva.

Speaker:

What?

Speaker:

He goes over and here's Denny.

Speaker:

With a baby Koala on her back.

Speaker:

He posted it on Facebook and he's like, y'all, you wouldn't believe.

Speaker:

So everyone on Facebook was like, listen, the baby koala totally fell from a tree.

Speaker:

I love this like discourse.

Speaker:

And Denny tapped into her maternal instincts and just like let the baby

Speaker:

hang on her back until she got help.

Speaker:

So they helped the little koala back up the tree, and Mama Koala just kind

Speaker:

of like appeared, came back, climbed up, got her little baby with no issues.

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Crikey, how stinking cute is life sometimes.

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So cute.

Speaker:

And I screenshotted the picture.

Speaker:

I'll show you after.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

This little dog, she's like.

Speaker:

So happy and this little baby is on her back.

Speaker:

I mean, it's just fucking cute.

Speaker:

You kidding?

Speaker:

And I feel like

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things like that are even more valuable now in the AI era

Speaker:

where people just make shit up.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And it's like when it really happens, it's, oh, this is so special.

Speaker:

It's awesome.

Speaker:

It's because I'm like, I've seen a lot of, yeah.

Speaker:

Cats made out of pizza dough.

Speaker:

I don't need to see anymore.

Speaker:

I wanna see a real dog and a baby koala.

Speaker:

I exactly thank you.

Speaker:

Together, ideally.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Oh my God.

Speaker:

What is your

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good news?

Speaker:

Okay, so mine comes from Jen, the good news girl on Instagram.

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Love her.

Speaker:

And this was so heartwarming.

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Okay, so there is a cat in, um, Richmond, Virginia.

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Okay.

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Who wandered in 2017 into a Lowe's there and just decided to stay okay?

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And they took her in.

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They've been caring for her for these eight years shop.

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She lives at, people love to visit her and see her wandering

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around, laying on boxes and stuff.

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However.

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Um, on September 17th mm-hmm.

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She went missing and it was discovered that she had crawled onto a delivery

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truck that was heading to a distribution center in North Carolina, 80 miles away.

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I know.

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So two days later, the truck arrives and they open for two days.

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Right.

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They open it up and they see, oh my God, there's a cat here.

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So they close it so they can go get help, right?

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Sure.

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But then some other staff person who didn't know came

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in, opened it and she bolts.

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And so it was like, everyone's like, oh my God, where's our girl?

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Francine?

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So they had people coming from Richmond, people like groups on Facebook,

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30,000 people involved in this effort.

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Signs posted like so much going into trying to find her.

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And then eventually on like October 5th after three weeks of no sightings.

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She shows up on security camera footage.

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She was wandering around.

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This giant distribution center was finally spotted, so they get her in a humane trap.

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They brought her back to her home in Richmond.

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She's back with her Lowe's family and they're planning a Francine Fest.

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So I just love this again,

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people come together, people coming together, like helping

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this little cat francy.

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Not all hope is lost.

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You guys.

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No.

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Like there is love and unity.

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Mm-hmm.

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Wherever you can look.

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Yes.

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What's up love?

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Actually like love is everywhere.

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What?

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Whatever.

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Fuck you Grant was saying.

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That diva.

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Alright, listeners, we'll catch you next time.

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Bye.

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This has been another episode of But For Real, produced by Valerie Martin and

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Emerson writer and edited by Sean Conlin.

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But for

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Real is

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the Gaia

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Center production.

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The Gaia Center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients

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across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as

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coaching for clients worldwide.

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For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit gaia center.co or find us

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on Instagram at the Gaia Center and at.

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But for Real Pod

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But for Real is intended for education and entertainment and is not a

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substitute for mental health treatment.

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Also, since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we

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are not shy here about sharing our opinions on everything from snacks and

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movies to politicians and social issues.

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Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

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See you next time.

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Besty.

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About the Podcast

But For Real
Welcome to But For Real: the podcast where all your swirling thoughts about mental health, pop culture, and how to human are blended into one delicious variety show, co-hosted by therapists Valerie Martin (resident elder millennial ✌️) and Emerson Ryder (resident Gen Z 🫶).

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Valerie Martin