Episode 19

full
Published on:

28th May 2025

Help, I’m Spiritually Curious But Existentially Exhausted 🙏🫠

Spirituality, religion, and being “woo-woo” are all hot topics these days – especially here in Nashville!

In this episode, Val and Emerson tackle WTF spirituality actually means, how it differs from religion, how it intertwines with existentialism, and low-stakes ways to engage with it while also avoiding spiritual bypassing.

And, as always, we get into other good stuff, including a spooky airBNB story from Val’s cousin (and The Gaia Center’s Director of Operations) Rebecca 👻


This episode covers:

  • 06:04 - Tea & Crumpets: Val’s new cooking routine + Emerson’s obsession with Swig
  • 10:32 - Step Into My Office: Impermanence and Existentialism
  • 14:32 - The Lore: Rebecca’s Spooky AirBNB experience
  • 19:54 - The DSM: The Spirituality, Religion + Woo Woo Conundrum
  • 50:26 - Now That's What I Call...OKAAAAY!
  • 52:48 - Val Pick: "Goose Snow Cone" by Aimee Mann
  • 53:50 - "Older" by Lizzy McAlpine
  • 54:58 - Fire Dumpster Phoenix: How a music conductor is navigating Parkinson’s Disease + South Africa’s ‘soccer grannies’ take the field for kicks and camaraderie


Resources + Stuff  Mentioned in This Episode:


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DISCLAIMER: But For Real Podcast is not a substitute for individualized mental health treatment or healthcare. This podcast is solely for entertainment and educational purposes. If you are in crisis, please utilize crisis support services, such as the Crisis Text Line (Text START to 741741 in the US) or the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: (Call 988 in the US), or visit www.findahelpline.com for international resources.

Transcript
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Welcome to, but for Real, a variety show podcast co-hosted by two therapists who

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also happened to be loud mouth feminist.

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I'm Valerie, your

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resident elder, millennial child free cat lady.

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And

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I'm Emerson, your resident, chronically online Gen Z brat.

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And on the show we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take

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you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

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You'll definitely laugh and TBH sometimes maybe cry a little because

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this is a silly and serious show.

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Buckle up my friends, and let's get into today's episode.

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So I just called myself a beverage hoe.

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Yeah.

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And I was like, beverage hoeing.

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Beverage hoeing.

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Explain,

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you know, I've got my three beverages here and listeners, or I should say viewers.

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Oh yes,

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beware.

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And maybe there will be a prize who can count how many teeth that I get?

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Little pieces of frozen berries.

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stuck between.

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By the end of this episode it will be several.

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Well, and it's fine 'cause I'll just, you know, guide the FI can

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already in the middle.

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It's a tiny spec.

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It's okay.

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Well just guys, I'm just bringing it, inviting it.

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Don't be that bitch that doesn't tell your friends that

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they have shit in their teeth.

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Yeah.

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Like I know I've made the statement before, but I feel passionate about this.

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I'm like, we

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can't

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just know that for the next 52 minutes or however long this recording is.

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I know.

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Well,

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I know that it's there.

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It's there.

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But remind

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me before

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I leave this

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room

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I will.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You're sitting with clients later and they're like, Hey,

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got seeds in there.

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Yeah.

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That reminds me too.

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So a few of us, um, from the Gaia Center we're on a little road trip to Louisville

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Road.

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Louisville.

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Oh, oh wow.

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Um, out in neck of the Woods, woods

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conference and I just kept buying bags of popcorn for the car and

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calling myself a snacking ass hoe.

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Snacking ass hoe.

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Love it.

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You know, it's a hoe is a lifestyle.

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So chick a pop.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Whatever.

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Okay.

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Well, uh, we are talking spirituality today.

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Well, yes.

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And gurus of it all.

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Oh my gosh.

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Shall we begin?

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I would love to know, with your spiritual history, have you had

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any sort of funny or embarrassing phases that you've gone through?

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Yes, deeply.

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Um, it would have to be.

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Uh, the thing that I coined, of course, the astrology ho phase,

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every uhhuh, you know, it's a symptom of the, like being 19.

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Genuinely, like that was my illness at the time was, uh, that was

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our societal illness at the time.

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Oh my God.

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Of course.

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Like I'm checking CoStar and I'm like lurking in it deep.

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What does Channy say?

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What is it saying?

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And then I'm like, cavorting with like the Internet's worst pick of men, you know?

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And being like, so let's, here's our sign sign.

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Um, and thinking that I was gonna be able to like, make it

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work and save an Aquarius, man.

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Hey, you can't ever save them.

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Okay.

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It's not your fucking specifically the Aquarius or any of that.

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I don't do Aquarius men, but like I love Aquarian people.

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My sister's an Aquarius.

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My best friend is an Aquarius.

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It's just the romantic match.

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We're not it.

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So I'm out here like manifesting for Scorpio again, 19.

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And so I'm like this 26-year-old ex frat boy is the one, Hey, guess what?

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He wasn't.

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So just the way that I would be in that Bumble DM being like, so.

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Thinking as if I'm some fucking astrologer.

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And I just like wasn't, and I thought the tool made me, I thought the tool

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kind of made me like mysterious.

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Yeah.

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So mysterious and like nonchalant.

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Hey, if you've listened to anything or been around me for five minutes, I'm the

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most nonchalant bitch you've ever met.

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And you're like, I can't be nonchalant about anything.

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Oh my God.

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That reminds, mysterious,

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reminds, it reminds me of a great little, um, reel that I saw this weekend.

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It was, um, I know this is way before your time, but have you

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ever heard of the show dinosaurs?

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It was like, no.

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Clay animation Claymation, like, kind of, yeah.

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I don't, I'd have, I don't know exactly what was style of

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animation, but a very cool, like 3D.

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But real life kind, animation style, mid nineties, I wanna say show.

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Um, we'll have to look up a clip because it, it's iconic and there's a baby

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dinosaur that is extremely chant and yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was like the real was like not me wanting to be mysterious

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and meanwhile, this is my whole

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personality.

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I'm the baby.

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Gotta love me.

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Oh, that's, so I just found a spirit animal.

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Okay.

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Tell me about

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your phase if you've had them and what's the two?

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Oh, I mean, astrology for sure was one, and like listeners, if

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you are into astrology, we are not here to shit all over you.

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I love astrology.

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It is complex.

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It is nuanced.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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So we're just kind of like when you make it your whole personality, right.

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Inseparable.

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Um, but so I went through.

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A phase where I was really trying to make myself believe a lot of things Yeah, sure.

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That my sort of inner wise voice was like, mm, yeah.

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Really?

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And, and then I would have all this judgment of like,

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you're not spiritual enough.

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Ooh.

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The inner, you're cute, intellectual and cognitive, and like, how lame.

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Mm. And so eventually I sort of got over that, especially well during

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the whole covid cons spirituality phase, which maybe we will get into.

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Sure.

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Um, but yeah, I, it's, it was a really good lesson and like that kind

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of thing, like these sort of, um.

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Not even just evangelizing, but the, the sort of peer pressure to

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believe a certain thing mm-hmm.

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Is not reserved for mainstream religion.

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No.

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Like it happens in other spaces.

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And listener, the number one word of the day is discernment.

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Like just trusting yourself.

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Yes.

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And just doing that inner discernment.

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What fits in, what doesn't fit.

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Yes, indeed.

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Now it's time for our first segment, tea and Crumpets, where we tell you what

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we can't stop talking about this week.

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So go.

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What's your tea?

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What's your crumpets?

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My tea.

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And mind you, I am literally holding a coffee cup and I used my other

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hand to mime having a tea cup.

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Thank you.

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Because that makes sense.

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Um, well tea is this.

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Yeah, that's true.

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I can't do that.

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I don't have a little handle on my coffee pot in a SL remember this is tea.

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Oh yeah.

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So cute.

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Okay.

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So my tea is I am really loving my new recipe and cooking routine.

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Okay.

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She's a chef.

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'cause I know right?

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They're fucking task.

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I have finally decided shocking that cooking is a valid use of my time.

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I mean, who knew you're growing up.

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And so it's, and I've gone through many a phase of like, I'm doing this

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online meal planner service mm-hmm.

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Because it makes all the recipes and it tells me how to batch

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things, dah, dah, dah, dah.

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Like, I've done a lot of things lot.

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I have a million cookbooks.

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So my most recent thing that's working really well is I will go through my

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cookbooks, usually just like two of them.

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Okay.

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So I don't overwhelm myself on a Sunday.

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Mm. I will pick my recipes for the week, kind of looking ahead to the week.

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Like when am I actually gonna gonna be home in the evenings to have time to cook?

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And then I will make my, pick my few recipes.

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I will make my grocery list from those recipes.

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And then I will assign, I put this all in my, my, um, task management

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thing, which I use, tick, tick.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I will put my grocery list in there and then for each recipe I'll put which

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cookbook, what page, and I'll assign it to which day that I'm gonna cook it.

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Nice.

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So it's just all there in my tic tic that I just look at every day.

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Sure.

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And then I'm actually like cooking the thing that I said I was going to cook

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because I assigned it to a specific day.

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So it's working well and I'll keep you posted

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your habit stacking essentially, which is really smart.

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Yeah.

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Cool.

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What about you?

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What's your tea?

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Okay, my tea is a beverage and it's just so funny.

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So.

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I'm not above being a basic bitch.

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Sure.

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You know, like I'm like girls and everyone that likes to be basic.

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Yeah.

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Whatever.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So I have been visiting for Quentin, the location swig, if you will.

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Have you heard of I've not heard of swig.

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Of swig.

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Oh Lord have mercy.

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Ah, so this is Fresh Outta Utah baby.

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The so is population.

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Well yes.

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Okay.

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Uh, the Mormon population, I believe, has spearheaded this dirty soda business.

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So this is all the rage right now.

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Dirty soda.

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Does that mean there's

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espresso in it?

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Well, I guess you could, but it's mostly like a pop.

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I say pop don like a soda or coke with like creamer or fruity syrup.

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Okay.

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It's very interesting 'cause within, I don't think, I don't know if

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all, but I remember with Mormon culture, they don't have caffeine.

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Oh.

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So like they're really big into soda, which like, I don't know how that

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doesn't like Well, but there are flavored sodas that you can be caffeine free.

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Yeah.

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Can be caffeine free.

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So.

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There's two locations in Nashville.

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There's, um, well, there's one in Brentwood and one in Spring Hill.

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And so, specifically the island time has been lodged into my Brent

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let me walk you through Please.

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It's a fresca, which, first off, I forgot that Fresca is tea.

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Now if, if Fresca is tea, if they're, if they're canceled or,

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or have bad business practices, I don't wanna fucking know about it.

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'cause that is, get a crisp can of that.

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Do not take my fresca.

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No, don't take it away from me.

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That is getting me through three to 5:00 PM every day for the past week and a half.

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Like I'm shackled to that can of fresca.

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So it has fresca nice like pebbly ice mango puree.

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Ooh.

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Passion fruit syrup, and then a little bit of coconut cream, and

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then an entire fresh squeezed orange.

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Wow.

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And then they cut the orange and leave it in the drink.

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So you have like a little orange surprise at the end of it.

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And it's been soaking in all the juices.

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Ooh, it's summer in a cup.

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That sounds delicious.

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That sounds

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like the

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like.

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Actual beverage form of ocean water.

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Yes.

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From Sonic.

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You know, I know where it's like, okay.

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This is clearly just chemicals.

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Oh yes.

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And water.

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Yes.

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But that sounds really tasty.

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It's really refreshing.

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Like on a nice hot summer day, it's kind of the go-to.

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So if you're in either of those areas, like good check out, check it out,

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or wherever else you can find your local swig.

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Oh yes.

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Go hit 'em up.

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Okay, now it's time for step into my office where you get advice

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from your favorite professionally qualified, personally peculiar

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therapist.

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This listener says, hi I in Val.

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I was walking through Marshall's recently listening to a podcast about impermanence.

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Suddenly I locked eyes with a baby and a cart, and I literally

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started choking back tears.

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I don't know if it was a breakdown or if that's what baby fever feels like or what,

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but I felt so weird and just hid away.

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I tried explaining this to my partner after the fact, but they

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looked at me like I had three heads.

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Mm-hmm.

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What even was that?

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And am I okay?

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Best crying in the candle aisle?

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Um,

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I mean,

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we all know that feeling,

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right?

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Yeah.

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When a little chunky baby is just like, and I'm like, are you even real?

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What even is the meaning of life?

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And I'm like,

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at ISS there gonna be a world for you when you're 50.

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Like, will you get to retire?

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Have you heard about climate

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change?

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This is like a two month old, like, oh my God, I'm just here with my mom.

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Yeah.

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No.

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Those existential moments, right?

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It's existential, uh, listener.

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I feel like I've been there.

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Yeah.

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I've totally been there.

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Those moments where you're just like, what does it mean?

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Or who are you and what am I?

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And yeah, those moments.

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Is there a world left for you, just like dealing with the existential crisis and

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how those can come up at any time moment?

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I would like to normalize moment.

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Yes.

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That it can happen literally at Marshalls?

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Yes.

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Or you know, in a very in depth spiritual moment, but.

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We're kind of being prone right now to have a lot of existential

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crises.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And that reminds me too, like in some of my coursework, um mm-hmm.

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We've been, we were talking about like where is the line between sort

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of spiritual crisis or just spiritual kind of transpersonal experience?

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Yes.

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And like mental health issue.

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Mm. Right.

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Diagram, whether that's like psychosis or it's, you know, depression or whatever.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Like there are things that we can very quickly pathologize just

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because maybe they feel different from our day-to-day experience.

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That's true.

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And now if you're having moments of like.

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Depersonalization where it's like, am who am I?

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Like what am I even, right.

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If you're having that frequently and it's distressing, that's one thing.

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Yes.

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But like it's also normal to have a little bit of that sometimes, right?

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Yeah.

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Same with Derealization.

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Like is this even real?

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Yeah.

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Like a little bit of that sometimes is more of the existential, what the

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fuck are we even doing here thing?

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Sure.

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Not mental health concern, it's just if it's happening more and

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it's distressing you a lot Yeah.

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Then, you know, talk to somebody about it.

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That's true.

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Like knowing where the line is.

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Right.

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I was talking about this with someone the other day, and then I was also

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talking to my sister about it recently where we both were sitting there and

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she goes, do you ever look at mom and think, oh my God, this is my mom.

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And I'm like, yeah, it came out of her.

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And then we asked my mom that like, you know, as, as our,

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like her children, right?

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Uhhuh.

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And my mom's just like, no, like, and my mom's just like, no.

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Like, well not thinking about it.

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And I was like,

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okay, that's tea.

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And I feel like that brings up a good point of like.

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I think some people are maybe just more existentially inclined.

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Yes.

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Right?

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Yes.

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Like just more That's okay.

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Meta awareness of consciousness and things like that and Right.

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There's no judgment of that.

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One is better than the other.

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Arguably, being unaware sounds great.

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I, I would

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live, I love to put myself in existential torture, but Yes.

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Like knowing this always how we talk about with anything, right?

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Like where the line is.

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If it's like very significantly distressing to you, that's different.

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Mm-hmm.

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Being there and being like, oh my God.

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And like for your partner looking like, you know, you have three heads.

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It's kinda like, my mom, she was just kinda like, no, what?

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I don't do that.

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And we were like, okay.

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Oh my god.

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And

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got to talk about it together, so it's okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So listener, you're normal.

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Yes.

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And you know, it's, who knows how much it had to do with baby

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or what, like you'll find out?

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Yes.

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Just keep collecting data.

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Keep living your life.

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Okay?

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Okay.

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Welcome to the Lord where we share anonymous listener submitted

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stories about literally anything.

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The more cringe or jaw dropping, the better.

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To submit your story for a future episode, find deets on the gram

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at, but for real pod or at gaia center.co/podcast today, everyone.

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Today we have, um, someone in the live studio audience.

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It is our beautiful, wonderful Rebecca, and she is going to tell us.

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The story, the lore live our first live lore That So

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exciting.

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So exciting.

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Oh my gosh, what a

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treat to be here.

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You sat down, so like good morning.

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I don't know if you know this Emerson, but I am the unofficial

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president of y'all's fan club.

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Real into the pod.

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So obsessed.

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You do.

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You always let us know when you listen.

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It's so sweet.

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I love it.

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Okay, but this

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lore, yes.

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Let's see.

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I would love to hear,

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so let's go back to 2017.

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I am in a relatively serious relationship.

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Well, yes, and I end up going on a trip with my boyfriend, his brother,

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and the brother's girlfriend.

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So the four of us all go out to Big Bend National Park in Texas, which is like,

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if you've ever been out there, it's big.

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That's why they call it that.

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And.

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We stayed in this little bitty Airbnb inter lingua, which is like little ghost

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town, couple hours outside of Big Bend.

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Texas is huge.

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Anyway, this Airbnb was like immediately weird vibes.

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No, like I was kind of into it 'cause I'm kind of a spooky girl, but my

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boyfriend and his brother and brother's girlfriend were all raised Catholic.

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Oh.

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So they were not fucking with it?

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Not fucking with it at all.

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It was, it was cool.

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It's like kind of an old ranch house.

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Mm-hmm.

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And you come in and there's like this kitchen area and then a little TV room

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and immediately off of that as like a big empty shop, like, I don't know, random

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crap all over, including a piano with a.

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Ouija board mounted on the wall above the piano.

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I'm like, cool vibes.

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And they're all like, Nope, nope, nope.

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So anyway, this trip I had just been getting over a stomach

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bug, so I decided to not go on the seven mile hike with them.

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Smart.

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Yeah.

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I was like, I'll stay in vibe at this Airbnb with these Ghosties will be cool.

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And, and I did.

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And I like hung out, watched movies all day.

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It was super chill.

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And then end of the day they all come back and my boyfriend who like we

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kind of had a high drama relationship.

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Well, sure.

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And you know, looking back, not the healthiest.

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But anyway, we started to talk about something stupid and then he said, oh,

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and of course not to be like cliche, whatever, but there were Native American

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burial ground, like resting area.

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Near our Airbnb.

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So we had like hiked up to that, checked it out.

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You know, I was trying to be very respectful.

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Sure.

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Z my boyfriend at the end of this long hike day, he comes in, sits down,

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makes a joke about we should take that Ouija board up to the burial area.

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And immediately the lights just in the room we were in went out just

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in that room and I was so pissed.

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So I was like, I have been here chill with these ghosties all day.

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Well sure.

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We're being respectful.

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Yeah.

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You walk in and say one thing.

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Oh sure.

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And now they're mad.

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Oh, why would a man be there?

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Yeah.

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Right.

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And so anyway, the trip goes on.

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He keeps saying dumb shit.

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Uh, things are escalating.

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It's the last night of the trip and I end up.

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We get in some sort of dumb fight and I decide I wanna go sleep on the couch

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in that like little TV room area.

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Sure.

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And at one point in the night I like rolled over and I saw someone walk up

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and I saw like under the door, you know how you can see like shadow of feet?

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I saw that and I was like, this bitch is coming over here to apologize.

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I don't even wanna hear it.

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And I rolled over and went back to sleep.

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Me?

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Yeah.

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I talked to everyone the next day and of course no one had been in that room.

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It was unexplained.

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But I pretty much figured by the end of that, uh, trip, I was like, oh,

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these ghosties are telling me that I do not need to be with this dude.

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So yeah,

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that's pretty much the lore of Yeah.

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I'm just so obsessed with something coming up to the door and being like.

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Girl run like it's, it's like the Britney shirt.

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Dump him like you open the door, it's the ghost wearing the dump him shirt.

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Literally.

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Literally.

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Oh my gosh.

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Well, I'm glad that you are being.

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Of course you were being sweet and loving and respectful of this

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space and they awarded you as such.

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Thank you.

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I thought so too.

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Mm mm

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And now it's time for the DSM.

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In our DSM.

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All varieties of dysfunction, spiraling, and meltdowns are welcome.

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In this segment, we break down complicated concepts and common misconceptions

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about mental health, wellbeing, and tell you what we really think.

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So we've already been teasing a little bit about spirituality and being curious.

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So let's kind of start and set the scene by flushing out spirituality

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and religion and the woowoo conundrum.

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'cause I feel like there's this Venn diagram in my brain and

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where we all culturally kind of intertwine these things together

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and how and why they're different.

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So what even is spirituality and how is this different from religion?

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I feel like that's a big question.

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Mm-hmm.

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That I always get so.

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Spirituality can be defined as an individual's personal journey.

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So think about personal growth, focus on self-discovery, and really

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parsing out personal meaning in life.

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Now, can all of those elements fit into religion?

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Yes, absolutely.

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And where I think some of the main differences between that is

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religion is to typically emphasizing organized institutions with focuses

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on rituals, traditions being centered around a specific higher power.

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So spirituality, again, can happen in an organized state if you would

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like, but I feel like most of the time it's kind of, you know, on

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the outskirts, in the outliers.

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And it can be a multimodal process.

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And so if we're talking about this in the frame with existential

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exhaustion, obviously we're gonna think of the word burnout.

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Mm-hmm.

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So just being burned out.

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On life.

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But I pulled this from a Medium article from our heart.

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Um, it plugged in the show notes, but existential exhaustion they coined,

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didn't coin the term, but they defined it as a prolonged state of emotional and

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psychological depletion caused by chronic survival mode, relentless emotional

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labor, and a loss of personal meaning TT.

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That really snatched my wig out of my head.

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I was like, okay.

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And if we think of that definition up next to burnout, which is again, a similar

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pool, they're like, they're sisters.

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Mm. And maybe not twins.

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Mm-hmm.

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But we're carrying the weight of constructing a meaningful

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life without instructions.

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That can be really overwhelming.

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Everyone is always asking, what's next?

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What should I do?

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What's the manual?

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Hey, there isn't a manual for a reason.

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Right.

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Even though that can be, you know, hard and frustrating.

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Of course we're in late stage capitalism, climate CL crisis.

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We're all addicted to our phones overstimulation.

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The dopamine receptors are fries.

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So that state of mind leads and exacerbates this existential existential

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exhaustion that we're having.

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And I kind of the well meaning advice of like, follow your bliss or do what's

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best for you, or those well-meaning words, which I think are fine.

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It's fine to say those things.

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I'm not saying that it's bad to say those things, but again, you

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know, if you're more existentially fraught or curious, sometimes those

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statements can feel jarring to you.

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What should I do?

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You know, what's the answer?

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What am I doing here?

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What's my purpose?

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The word purpose, and how that shows up.

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Mm-hmm.

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So really wanted to just like parse out those individual differences.

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Now, I like threw down like woowoo in this as well.

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I feel like that's it's whole other subcategory.

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It mostly.

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Derogatory where it's like, oh, I don't do that.

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Woo woo shit.

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Um, but I

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feel like there's

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also the people who

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are owning, they're like, oh,

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they're own, they're own very into

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Woo.

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Yes.

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Very.

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I've always owned the Woo.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because I'm like, I don't know.

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I don't know what's out there.

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Right.

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Also, I know that for me, that's none of my business.

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I'm like, I, I don't, I can't question it all I can.

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Right.

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And I have, but I won't do it anymore.

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Yeah.

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'cause it makes me exhausted.

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Right.

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So.

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Yep.

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Yes.

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And I feel like with the capitalism piece, like we will, we'll probably

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come back around to that several times.

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Oh yeah.

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But it's like, I think in our deep hunger mm-hmm.

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For meaning.

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Then that's why like everyone has a quarter life crisis and thinks

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they should be a life coach.

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Um, or, or a therapist, which to be fair, hi.

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You're like, did both

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sad.

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And so it's tough 'cause like obviously I'm not one to talk and be like,

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oh my God, stop thinking that you just need to help other people find

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meaning as your source of meaning.

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Um, that for some people can be very fulfilling.

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But it is almost like this like commercialized way of

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finding meaning like, oh.

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I finally found meaning in my life.

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And it's helping others.

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Yes.

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So I'm gonna go help other people.

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And then those people are gonna discover that they should quit

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their jobs and also become a coach.

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And then we have a whole pyramid of coaches and Oh yes.

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People who are off helping each other find meaning meanwhile, who is cleaning

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the gutters and the drains and the Sure.

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Building the, you know, whatever the fuck it's becoming Amway like, we

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do need people doing the real jobs.

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Yes.

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Not to say our job isn't real, but you get what I mean?

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Like we can't all be focused on meaning all the time.

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No.

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Or it just becomes this like.

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I don't know this cluster.

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Fuck yes.

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Vortex of, um, meaning seeking.

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Yes.

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So, yeah.

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It's kind of a mindfuck and like, frankly, as much as I love helping

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people, myself and other people explore sort of meaning, purpose, et cetera.

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Yeah.

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Um, sometimes, you know, we long for, can I just be a barista?

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Can I

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work at Swig?

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Can I work at, can I be like the 16 year olds working at Swig?

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They're like, Hey, can I have your number?

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I type it in the little iPad and then they bring me a fruity swing.

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Yeah.

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And you

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know what, maybe the purpose of life is just enjoying

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making little sodas for people.

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Yes.

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And going for a walk with your dog and like taking a nap and Yeah.

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So it's all very tied up together in Yes.

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In sort of what we have to do in our lives to like, make paychecks

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and all that kind of stuff.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that, that may not be where we find meaning.

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And so where are we gonna find it?

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Are we gonna find it in church?

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Yeah.

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Less so than it used to be.

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Right.

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Okay.

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So looking at like this modern paradox of craving spiritual connection

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while also just being burned out by life, especially in our current,

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uh, society, there is this pressure to sort of become the best, highest

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self right and quickly, best version.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And what does that even mean?

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Right?

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There's this constant chasing, and I'm so obsessed with this kind of topic because

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again, I believe in personal development.

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I believe in the Maslow of it all, right?

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That self-actualizing and connecting with, you know, what is my sort of

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deeper dharma or thing that, um, can help me grow as a human being.

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Sure.

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Um, but also that can become very kind of existentially fraught, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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To what end and when am I done and when am I ever enough?

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So that is a deeply complicated, uh, exploration.

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And also something that has been really co-opted by a lot of the

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personal development or wellness industrial complex, right?

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Yes.

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Because it's like, well, we have just the thing for you to

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become this highest self, right?

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Um, so we want to do the things that better ourselves, but we often

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with this burnout, we lack the spoons to make it happen, right?

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Yeah.

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To do the thing that might help us to feel more, um, connected

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to ourselves or fulfilled.

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And again, like with the intersection of how capitalism, like sort

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of co-ops all of these things.

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And it's hard because some of these tools like are fun, right?

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Yeah.

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I think of, you know, the crystals and the tarot decks and whatever else.

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Like they can be very fun and they can be tools for exploration.

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But then companies are like, Ooh, you know what?

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The people will buy, we'll just make more.

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We will make a shadow work journal and we'll sell it in a TikTok shop.

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And it's, and you'll

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relentlessly get it every other video on your algorithm until you actually go nuts.

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Yes.

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Until you

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go

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and

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save.

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Yes.

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And then you're like, well now I have some shadow work to do.

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I guess I need this journal,

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the shadow part of me.

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I'm like, I'm writing in the journal.

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And then the journal flips over and it's like, for 39.99, yeah, you can keep

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becoming the best version of yourself,

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which then makes church sound kind of great.

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It's like, I mean, depends on the church, right?

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Well, sure.

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Church is not really trying to sell you stuff, but you do have

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to pay a lot to keep the church open and keep the people paid.

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And of course that's on a large spectrum because I've been, you know, in my old OU

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church, it's like we were just trying to keep the lights on and you know, pay the

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minister a like kind of a living wage.

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Whereas then there's these megachurches that are just like luxurious and.

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Weird, kind of feels corrupt, you know?

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Yes.

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I live right by mega church.

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Yes.

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It's

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great crying.

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So, you know, it makes sense why a lot of the ways that that has again, gotten

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co-opted by humans and greed and all of that, uh, that church doesn't often

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feel like home for a lot of people.

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Like there's this large ex evangelical movement right now.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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A lot of people going through deconstruction.

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Um, especially with Christianity, though not exclusively so the

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millennials, the Gen Zs, they are showing up in spades and our offices

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like, help, what do I believe in?

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Yes.

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How do I make medium my life now that I have let go of this

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thing that doesn't fit for me?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, now some of them are still finding homes in different spiritual, uh,

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religious communities, but for many people it's like, well, if I'm not finding it

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there anymore, where am I gonna find it?

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Um, pew Research, uh, said that one in four adults under the age of 30 are

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unaffiliated with any particular religion.

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So they might.

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Self-describe as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular, or

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spiritual, but not religious.

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Uh, and millennials are still largely more religious than Gen Z. Um, so 19%

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unaffiliated, and then there's this kind of mix and match, like spiritual buffet.

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Yes.

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Um, which some people will say from, from any tradition, some people

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from any tradition might look at that and be like, well, if you, you

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know, drill a million holes, you're not gonna get much water from that.

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Well, right.

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Yeah.

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But I think that if you're doing so respectfully, and what we have to

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be super mindful of here, of course too, is cultural appropriation.

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Right.

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Good time.

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Because, um, for instance, there's a lot more awareness of that now even

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than there was five, 10 years ago.

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I agree.

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But when yoga first like burst onto the scene and became super

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popular in the West mm-hmm.

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It was just like, nama stay bitches

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and like, oh yeah.

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And did I have a shirt at 16 that said Nama stay in bed.

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Right, right.

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Oh yeah.

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We were, we were, raise your hand if you were guilty.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So we didn't understand.

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Now we know better.

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We can do better, right?

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Yes.

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And same thing with like all of the Native American spirituality that's been

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co-opted by, you know, like sweat lodge ceremonies and these treatment centers

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that are like all run by white people.

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Yeah.

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Um, things like that.

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So, you know, it doesn't mean you can't be inspired by traditions, but for instance,

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it's part of what drew me to Druidry.

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Is like, it's a nature-based spirituality, but it comes from, you know, a, a land and

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culture that is much more kind of what I can claim in my own ancestral heritage.

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Sure.

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Um, why I think the Native American practices are lovely

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and so brilliant, beautiful.

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Um, they're not necessarily mine, so I can be inspired by them, but I wanna

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be mindful that I can, um, as Susanna Bartake writes, uh, honor the roots of

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these traditions rather than appropriate.

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So, uh, yeah.

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And so we have to really look at, like, when you're going to the spiritual

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buffet, um, be aware that you might constantly be seeking novelty.

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Yes.

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That might not actually help you go deep with anything.

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And that's the difficult parts, right.

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When we're talking about, you know, the, the split part of the double-edged sword

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of that where you're burned out and.

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Feeling so malnourished just within your energy.

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And so having some hodgepodge, having a smorgasbord of options can kind of

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tickle, at least from an A DH, adhd.

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Yeah.

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It can kind of tickle that a little bit where it's like, Ooh,

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I can kind of make the buffet.

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Yeah.

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I would like, and also when it then gets too much when it's appropriating

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or you're just like overwhelmed.

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Yeah.

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You're like trying to learn way too much shit from like all

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different schools of thought.

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Right.

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And then it's not actually helping you integrate anything like you were saying.

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And so that directly bleeds into the conversation about spiritual bypassing,

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which we could not, not bring up here.

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So just kind of like the shadow size of spirituality.

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Most importantly, how we talk about spiritual bypassing, uh, the term

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and everything was coined from John Wellwood, who is a leading

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figure in transpersonal psychology.

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And he defined spiritual bypassing as using spiritual ideas and practices

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to sidestep or avoid facing unresolved emotional issues, psychological

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wounds and developmental tasks.

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So you're talking with your friend who just came back from a weak long retreat

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and like they have that post retreat buzz and like it's so good and they like had

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fresh fruit every day and they went for yo walks and they did yoga and they did a

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few, you know, spa treatments and they're like feeling enlightened and it's awesome.

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And then the next week they're like, wait, I need three body workers and I

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need to go to, I need to immediately sign up for the next retreat and I need

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to do this and I need to do that, baby.

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What you need to do is go to therapy and do your laundry and touch

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grass and touch grass quickly.

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Get those pigs in the grass.

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And so again.

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Go to that retreat.

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It's amazing.

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And also, what are you doing outside of the retreat?

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What are you doing outside of therapy?

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What are you

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doing?

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Yes.

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Where are you, where do you need to face your life?

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Right.

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Yes.

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Like, and I have seen this come up like where people are so embedded in spiritual

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world and then they are not really in reality wanting to engage in reality

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in ways that we kind of have to If you don't wanna get evicted for a third time.

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Yes.

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And like, well, I don't wanna engage in this world 'cause I don't care about it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, that's, even if we look at that psycho spiritually, and I'll, uh, I was

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looking for the book, I think it's in the other room, but, um, adea, Judas,

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Eastern Body, Western Mind mm-hmm.

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Is a really, really lovely book that kind of looks at dev, uh,

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developmental stages through this, the lens of the chakra system.

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Interesting.

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And also the sort of traumas that can happen, but that, that description

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is somebody who's sort of like.

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Overloaded in their upper chakras.

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Yes.

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Like I'm all about sort of the spiritual, the intellectual, um, the,

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you know, universal oneness, but I am not grounded in my root chakra mm-hmm.

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Of like, you know, understanding that I gotta keep a roof over my

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head and treating my body well and getting enough sleep and all of that.

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Yeah.

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So, so there can be a lot of imbalance there.

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Um, and, and again, so like this stuff happens both in like traditional religious

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communities we might think of like the family who sort of like pray pray it away.

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Yes.

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Or like, oh, I don't need therapy, I'm just, you know, giving

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it over to God kind of thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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But then also very much in new age spaces.

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I agree with the retreats and all these other kind of like, you know,

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esoteric things that we wanna engage in.

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Yes.

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Like going to core power is important and you know, what else is there?

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Yeah.

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Just making sure that you're having awareness of.

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Of your shadow part, right?

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Like what it means in your ego, what it means in your shadow.

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You know, cut to our episode a few episodes ago about parts work, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Like all of that as an integrated part of you.

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And that okay, you may like have like painful shit, right?

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Like legit painful stuff, traumas that you're, that feels easier to

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leave and give in to in that way.

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And also like the reckoning of like facing your own stuff.

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The empowerment in that, the spirituality inherently behind into integrating

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all of those parts of yourself to to be the best version of yourself.

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Like that's, to me is kind of what the highest version of yourself

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is, is are you aware of all of the previous parts of yourself and how

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they still live within you and how that influences you in your life.

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And as you make decisions, who shows up?

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Who's in the driver's seat, who's not?

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And like of course that's one piece of the pie in terms of all of this.

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But yeah, just being aware of.

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The bypassing and what that means.

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Um, yeah.

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Cool.

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Mm. And then looking at the existential piece.

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So I feel like there are some core existential issues that can come up

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that without either a grounding in some, something sort of spiritual or

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religious or a, a different sort of, maybe you don't call it spiritual, but

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for you it is just more existential.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, without some piece of that, you are probably not going to be okay.

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Yes.

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Right.

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There is no CB ting your way out of this kind of stuff.

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No.

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Like, you have to ground yourself into some framework for meaning and

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understanding your place in the world.

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So Yalom is, uh, one of the OGs of existential psychotherapy.

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Um, and of course, existentialism as a philosophical movement started.

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Um, earlier in like the 18 hundreds Kiir guard, Nietzche.

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Um, and then, you know, to Sarra, Simone De Bois, I'm sure I said that wrong.

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How the fuck do you say French names?

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I don't know.

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Um, but into then the existential psychotherapy world where it was

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like, oh, turns out these concepts are super useful to bring into a

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therapeutic context because people are grappling with these issues that are

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not just about their family of origin.

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Yeah.

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They're not just about, you know, needing to reframe their thoughts.

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Sure.

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They're grappling with the existential givens, which yalom, um, put into

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these categories of death, freedom, isolation, and meaninglessness.

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Cool, cool, cool.

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Right.

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Yay.

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You can see why I'm chosen to spend five years of my life studying existential

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psychology because the topics are so fun.

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Um, but really like we all exist with these things as our companions.

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We are aware of our mortality.

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And we have to have the, we'll call, uh, moral salience.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, or mortal Mortal salience.

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You have to have just enough awareness of your own mortality.

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Not too much.

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Not too much.

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Right.

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'cause you're gonna be

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clutching those pearls.

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Yes.

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So like, finding those ways of like, we have to have healthy

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defenses against thinking about our own death all of the time.

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Yes.

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But if we are overly defended, that's where a lot of our neuroses come in.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, freedom, meaning we are responsible for shaping our own lives.

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Beautiful.

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But also that's a lot of fucking pressure.

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Scary, right.

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Freedom and choice all of the time.

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Yes.

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Right.

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And then frankly, for people who, this is a lot of what I see with like

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high performers, uh, high achievers, when you reach a place in your

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life where you have more options.

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Sometimes that freedom can be crippling of Oh, sure.

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Of like, how do I spend not only just today, but like if I have

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all these options, what do I do?

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What's the right choice?

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Um, so we all deal with that isolation.

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No one else can live our lives for us.

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And guess what?

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You, you may come in here as two, like inside of somebody's womb.

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Mm-hmm.

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You leaving alone,

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uh, alone.

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I tell people all the time what's, you know when people say like, what

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do you mean what's the relationship that I have towards myself?

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I say, dead ass.

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What is the relationship that you have towards yourself?

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Because you have to wake up with you every day.

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Every day.

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You have to live with you for the rest of your life.

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Yeah.

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You better learn to like that person and quickly, and

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it doesn't have to.

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Right.

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But it's, yeah, it that it's gotta be there.

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Yes.

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We need each other.

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We are inherently relational creatures.

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Oh, sure.

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And also, you're walking around in this one little meat sack all the

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time, and you're responsible for, you know, being with yourself and dealing

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with that, that reality of the, the loneliness that we all carry inside.

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Yes.

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And then meaninglessness, good old meaninglessness, you know, um, that,

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you know, the existentialist would say there's not necessarily some inherent

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meaning, like some grand truth of like, God has a plan for all of us,

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and we're just living at our destiny.

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So we have to, again, make our own.

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We have to find our own meaning and shit.

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If Viktor Frankl can do it in the concentration camps when his

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whole family is being killed, we can step up to that task.

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And most of us are regular ass lives.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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I, again, that question of like.

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Uh, I think about this all the time, and I frame this for clients

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literally in the bodily way.

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Mm-hmm.

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I have to, I have to make meaning of my life.

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I have to do this, I have to live with myself for the rest of my life.

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I get to live with myself.

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Yeah.

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For the rest of my life.

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Just that immediate down upward shift, starting there, even, even

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if you don't believe it, I get to do something with me today.

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I get to go and make this go and do this opportunity and have it mean whatever it

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needs to mean for me, and that's fine.

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Mm-hmm.

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That's totally fine.

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So Father Yalom, how is he suggesting that we cope and has suggested

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that we cope with all of this?

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So connection as the bomb for isolation.

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Again, those deep, authentic relationships that can help, that can help just

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provide the meaning what it, whether it's the roles that you play in those

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relationships or what you learn from these people, what you take from the

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relationship, what it means for you.

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So even if we're kind of sitting, I mean some of my favorite thing

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to do is sit with my friends and be like, I'm existentially freaking out.

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And they're like, yeah, me too.

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And I'm like, and we're doing it together.

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Together.

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Thank God, thank God.

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So definitely connecting and, and leaning into your relationships.

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What does it mean to have depth there?

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, legacy and creativity as some of the meaning makers.

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So leaving something behind even a well-timed meme, you know, if

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your funniness can soothe some of that fear of impermanence,

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shout out to the marshals baby.

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Um, that's making us think of those things.

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Yeah.

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And so legacy can mean every, anything again.

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Legacy for some people is starting a family and having children

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and having a little bit of those parts still living within you.

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It can be the job or the space that you're taking up.

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It can be the art that you make.

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It can be anything.

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It can be how you live, like

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being one of those people that at your, you know, memorial service people.

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Just talk about how you lived your life.

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Yeah.

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Like that's a legacy.

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100%

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facing death can make us feel more alive again, everyone gets shook

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by this because of death, anxiety.

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Hey, also like I have death, anxiety, bad.

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The house down boot, you wouldn't believe the times where I'm just

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like, ah, paralyzed by death.

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But again, that acceptance of mortality can make us awakened and

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more aware to the present moment and why that's so important.

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I, you know, through, uh, Mary Oliver in here, what is it that you plan to do

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with your one wild and precious life?

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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It's like the sad parts of it, and then it's like, wait.

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Right.

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We have time.

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Mm-hmm.

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We have time to go and do the things.

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And again, okay.

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We don't need the grand answers.

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It's just honest, living and being.

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Mm-hmm.

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I think that's like the thing everyone kind of chuckles in my life, but I'm

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like, the older that I get right, the more time that I'm just sitting back

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and I'm like looking at the sky and I'm looking at the trees and I'm putting

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my feet in the dirt and I'm just like noticing what the breath feels like.

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And it's just, and I'm, when I'm in a moment, I'm trying really

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hard not to be pulling myself out of it, thinking, okay, I, I need

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to go home and, and this and that.

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Like, just be with your friends, be with your loved ones, be with

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your coworkers, be with whoever.

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Be with yourself.

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Yeah.

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And you're just becoming,

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right.

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Becoming, and you don't even have to know what or who you're becoming.

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No.

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You're just becoming, and as David White says, like.

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Like living into the beautiful questions.

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Yes.

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We don't, we don't even have to try to answer them.

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Just live into them.

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Just live.

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Mm.

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Okay.

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So let's talk about a few low stakes practices.

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Sure.

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Both for our woos and our skeptics.

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Well, yes.

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Because you can be skeptical and still let a

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candle.

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Exactly.

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You

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know, look at the flame, honey.

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Look at the flame.

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It'll straighten

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up

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the more

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time you look at it.

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I

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know.

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So how to feel connected when you are fried, when you are dealing with not

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only late stage capitalism and this shit storm of apolitical time, but

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also just living with these existential givens that have always been part

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of, um, this whole being human thing.

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Yes.

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So engage your senses, just like you were describing, like be in your life.

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Mm-hmm.

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Feel the day as, as, uh, Brendan Burchard says, A coach that I love, like.

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Like we can, we can achieve a whole lot of things, but if we're just sort

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of like checking things off the list.

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Yeah, and just like.

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Performing life.

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Mm-hmm.

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You start to feel very empty very quickly.

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Yes.

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No matter what is in your bank account, no matter you know what accolades you have.

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So feel the day be in your experience.

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It's, it's such a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason of like,

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be a present, but like really ask yourself like, what can I do to be

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in my life a little bit more today?

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Mindfulness

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I have.

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Yeah.

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Well, clients that I love, but they'll fight me.

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And I do too.

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I fight my own mindfulness every day sometimes, and then I'm like, no.

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Yes.

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That's what

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this is about.

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Right.

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And, and like, allow yourself to do it in a way that feels more

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authentic and less box checky.

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Yes.

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Because believe me, I have been in those phases where I'm like, I'm doing my

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daily meditation and like, it's not bad.

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No.

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But it's very much feels like checking a box.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, whereas if I'm like, you know, what, what do, what kind of

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practice would feel nourishing?

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Yeah.

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To me right now.

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Uh, would it be a walking meditation?

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Would it be like, whatever it is, what would feel nourishing to me?

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Um, earthing grounding.

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Of course.

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Of course.

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And that's like reconnecting to the fact that, hi, we're all animals and yet we've

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created these very comfortable boxes for ourselves, these clothing, these shoes.

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And uh, it's really cool.

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There's like a great little short documentary you can

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find on Earthing online.

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Really.

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And it's, it's very inspiring.

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'cause you, you'll be like, like looking at the data of just how much, like

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our lack of connection with the Earth, like direct connection has probably

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contributed to inflammation, which is the cause of so many health issues.

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Yes.

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So yes.

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Basically just go and put your piggies in the grass.

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Yep.

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You know, um, sometimes I will even.

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Go for like a partial barefoot hike.

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'cause you never know.

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Sometimes there's like little rocks and stuff.

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Yeah.

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And you gotta be careful.

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But I'll like bring my, bring a little bag and I'll have my shoes in there

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so I can put them on when I need to.

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Cute.

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Um, yeah, it's really fun.

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And people look at you funny and they're like, do you know your barefoot?

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And you're like, yeah, fucking, no,

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my shoes are

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in a fucking Walmart bag.

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Like, yes.

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Um, singing, humming, dancing.

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Shaking.

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Shaking.

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And again, I think of like our animal nature and just like what it's like to

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be, uh, by yourself or in a group of people where you're just like in the

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moment moving your body and there's like kind of nothing more beautiful, right?

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Yes.

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Um, especially when you can do it in a way where.

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You're, you're not performing.

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You don't care.

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You're not feeling self-conscious.

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You're just existing in that experience.

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Oh, yeah.

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Go to a rave.

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Oh yeah.

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Feeling stemming.

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I've never been to a rave.

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What?

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Have you been to an actual rave?

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Yeah.

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Oh, okay.

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I'm, well, I don't know.

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I don't know actual, like what counts, right?

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Like what?

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I don't know.

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Yeah, like EDMI feel like that I, yeah.

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Bonnaroo, I'm like their barefoot, like, yeah, I feel like I need to an hour.

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What's the, uh, maybe I need to a burning man.

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Okay.

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I need to go to a bird.

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Should we go to a.

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I'm like bringing my comfort pillow and like my

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entire setup, I'm bringing my seat a machine.

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I'm like trying to plug it into the grass.

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Oh my God.

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Also read, listen, watch something that moves you.

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Moves.

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And I love that phrase, right?

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Yes.

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Something that moves you.

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Oh my God.

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I, uh, you know what doesn't move me is being on my phone.

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But every now and then, I'll tell you what.

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Every now and then, you know, you come across something like, I swear for

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me it's usually the animal videos.

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Me too.

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Right?

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Where it's like it is moving, it is moving.

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And someone, I, I'm gonna have to look it up after this and,

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and put it in the show notes.

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I think it's.

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Called deeply after.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, or deep after.

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It is an Instagram account that just popped up on my feed the other day.

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Somebody has taken like Alan Watts clips, so we talk about like beautiful

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existential words, especially like in his original voice recordings

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from like the fifties and sixties.

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So they have taken Alan Watts recording.

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I don't know if it's only him, but the one I watched was.

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And they have pulled a bunch of like cat clips together and put

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like a little vintage filter on it.

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Oh my.

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I thought I was just, I was enlightened in that moment and I started following

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the account and they have something coming out like website, like coming

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soon sign up and I'm like, sign me up.

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Take, I don't know if it's gonna cost something, but take my money

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because it was so deeply moving.

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Mm-hmm.

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So look for those things and you know, and if it's, your phone feels

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the opposite of moving to you.

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Obviously you can look elsewhere.

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Sure.

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But I know for me, like, you know, maybe the, is like setting a timer with things

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like that of like, okay, I'm gonna check a few of my little animal accounts and

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then I mean, gonna put the phone away.

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Sure.

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Right.

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'cause it sucks meaning,

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yes, yes.

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So, but for real, but for real, spirituality is an

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inherently personal experience.

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You gotta go your own way.

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You gotta do this your own way.

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Listen vocalists here, so don't feel pressured, right?

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To join anything, believe anything, or bye bye.

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Anything spiritual.

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And it's okay to be a little existentially fried and to want something more.

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Curiosity oftentimes is the agent.

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It's enough and slowing down is enough.

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Yeah.

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And you are enough to Amen.

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Amen.

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This is church heaven here

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and now our musical segment.

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Now, that's what I call where Emerson and I each share a song with each

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other each week as representatives of our respective generations.

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We tell you a little bit about the song or artist and then we press pause, we

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share the song with each other, and then we come back for our live reaction

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and we're capturing it all on a Spotify playlist linked in the show notes for you.

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The song that I wanted to share today is um, from one of my all

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time favorite artist, Amy Mann.

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Even if you don't think you know her, you for sure heard a couple of her songs.

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Okay.

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But she's an indie queen.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, she's been putting out records.

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Records law since Okay.

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Boomer, since the mid nineties.

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And some of her best shit, I mean, some of her more well-known

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songs are from the late nineties.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, but she continues to put out amazing music and this is from her

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2017 album, mental Illness Obsessed.

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Right.

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Um, the song is called Goose Snow Cone.

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And I, as I was researching for the pod, I found this lovely quote that I had

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never read before, and now it makes me appreciate the lovely video even more.

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So before we watch the video, I'm just gonna show, tell you guys a little

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bit about, um, this song from Amy.

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She said, I wrote Goose Snow Cone when I was on tour in

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Ireland on a cold and snowy day.

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I was feeling very homesick when I saw a picture on Instagram of a cat.

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I know once again, the animals on Instagram.

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Named Goose.

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Her fluffy white face was looking up at the camera in a very plaintiff way,

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like a little snowball, and I started singing a little song about her that

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turned into a song about loneliness.

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Hello existentialism.

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I intended to change the lyrics, but never could find a phrase to

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replace the one I started with.

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When it came time to make a video, I knew the original goose had to be in it.

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Her owners are my friends, Robin Paloma, who coin coincidentally

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have produced and direct videos.

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Hmm.

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One of my cats had recently gone through a long illness and I was thinking about that

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when I came up for the idea for the video, and I knew Paloma had to star in it as

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she has a very lovely and expressive face.

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The vet in the video is my actual vet, and he's a great guy.

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It was not easy wrangling goose, but the magic of editing makes it all work.

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Wait, I'm so excited.

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Okay.

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Come over and watch the video.

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It's so cute.

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It's so sweet.

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Little cute, wholesome.

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I need to go listen to this whole album.

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Yeah.

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It's legit.

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Very good.

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In the middle of, okay, I'll everyone, I, I was like said in the half, I was

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like, this is 25-year-old of me, but like, it feels Joni Mitchell coded probably.

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I'm, I was never a huge Joni fan.

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Not on purpose.

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I like dislike her, but, um, Amy Mann is just like her vibe.

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So good.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yay.

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What's your song?

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Uh, be ready.

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It's, this is the song that I listen to when I'm, uh, in the car,

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freaking out at home, freaking out outside, freaking out, uh, anywhere.

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Freaking out.

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We're freaking out.

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Just literally freaking out.

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And so you're not a stranger to Lizzie Mac Carpine.

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We've listened to her before.

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Yes.

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Haunting h And so I literally, all I put for this is we've been,

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no, this ho gets me in my feels.

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Um, this is from her third studio album, older that released last year.

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So no music video for it yet, but it is my perfect existential af song, so, okay.

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Hope you enjoy.

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Wow.

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I feel like I just brought trauma to the building.

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I was like, good morning, Monday morning.

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Good morning.

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Everything is meaningless and we're all gonna die.

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I'm like, did she just fucking stab us?

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Be honest.

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Oh, but it's so, she's haunting.

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Yes.

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Haunting is a perfect word because it's, it's like, it's

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devastating, but also there's like.

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An innocence and a purity to it.

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Yes.

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Especially in that lovely lyric video.

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Um, yeah.

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It's just one of those things that I think brings you to that, that

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existential truth of recognizing that yeah, this is like all meaningless

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and also beautiful, like these animals running around with no self-awareness.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, and yet just pure existence.

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Right?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And just the, you know, the, the carousel ride, like being a kid and just like

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being there and like, not knowing yet, like I wish I knew what the end is.

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Yeah.

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But we can't know, you know?

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That's, yeah.

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Thank God and thank God.

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And also the parts that really wanna know.

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Yeah.

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But it's okay not to know.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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Good shit.

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And now for our last segment of the show, welcome to Fire Dumpster Phoenix.

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It is rough out there, y'all.

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And we need all the hope we can get.

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It's time to go dumpster diving for some positive news and rides from the

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leftover Happy Meal ashes together.

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So my good news for this week, this was so beautiful.

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I was literally crying reading this.

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Um, so Rand Laycock from Ohio is a music conductor dealing with Parkinson's

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disease for just about over a decade.

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And so obviously you're conducting this is drastically beginning to impede his

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work, um, by needing to have steadiness over his hands, so unable to control

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his tremor with medication alone.

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He learned about deep brain stimulation, which they coined DBS mm-hmm.

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At the Cleveland Clinic and has underwent surgery to have a device implanted to

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deliver electrical currents to specific parts of the brain that control movement.

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And helps to modulate the abnormal brain signals that are caused by Parkinson's.

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So he's seen great success with DBS, Hey, that rhymes, um, within the past

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year and is now interested in pursuing further technology to aid his tremors

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and to get back to the things he loves.

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And in the article he was just saying like, I know it can be really scary

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to like, undergo brain surgery.

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Mm-hmm.

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But like, this has literally given me like a second outlook on my life.

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Wow.

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Um, you know, like when I got the diagnosis, the doctor told me like, this

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didn't have to be my death sentence.

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And so he was really just kind of putting it out there that although

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it's a really big and can be a scary thing, but it's really changed his life.

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Mm-hmm.

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And he is, uh, interested in continuing, I think it's the adaptive, uh, dbs.

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So there's like further technology happening.

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I just think, again, like I'm always wowed by science, a little

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bit of existentialism in this.

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Right.

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And, you know, a, a disease that can really overtake someone's life.

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Um, but he's like 60 and he's like, I have more life left to live.

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Yeah.

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So really,

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really cool.

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Amazing shout out science.

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Cool.

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Okay.

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So my story also is dealing with, um, people in the second half of

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life, uh, but in South Africa where the soccer grannies are taking

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the field for kicks and comradery.

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Cute.

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So there is a woman in South Africa, um, bika San We seed,

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we're gonna go with that song.

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Wei, um, who was a former gospel radio dj.

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Love.

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And like way back when, uh, south Africa's was really going through

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the AIDS crisis, she was seeing a lot of these older women lose their

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adult children and then raise being, raising these orphaned grandchildren.

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And just like who's taking care of them, like who's taking care of these

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older women who have just spent their whole lives now being caretakers.

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Um, so, you know, long story short, as uh, a neighborhood little soccer game

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one day with this group of young boys turned into like, one of, you know,

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the ball kicks over to this woman.

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She's like, wait a second.

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That was fun.

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And so they, you know, she brought together, um, some women and was

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just like, Hey, let's try this out.

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Sure.

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Um, one of them, or I guess this was her, she said, soccer

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takes your whole body and mind.

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The game takes care of you, and the women take care of each other, which often

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is not something they've experienced from other people in their life.

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Um, so there's a local undertaker who sponsors a number of the teams

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For older women who says, many people don't see grannies as people anymore.

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It's like we've discarded them.

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Watching them play is such a source of joy.

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So this has become like a whole big thing.

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Wow.

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Like there's multiple teams and leagues and I was just like, that is so cool.

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Yeah.

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Life never make the meaning.

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It never happens.

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It never ends.

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You make the meaning.

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Yep.

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I love it.

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Grannies are we play being old ladies playing soccer maybe

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like, and plus a lot of them didn't even take it up for the first time until they

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were approached with this opportunity.

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I'm obsessed with that.

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I'm like, it's not too late for me.

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Maybe I will still learn a team sport.

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Okay.

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Good.

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D one.

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That's all we got.

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That's all we have for this week.

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That was fun.

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So, you know, go reflect on your life.

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Like go ponder and like catch grass and like hug your loved ones.

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Yeah.

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And like it's okay to get old.

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Yeah.

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And yeah.

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Yeah.

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Just slow down.

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Yep.

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Just slow down.

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Okay.

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Love you.

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Bye bye.

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This

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has been another episode of But For Real, produced by Valerie Martin

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and Emerson writer and edited by Sean Conlin, but for Real is

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a Gaia Center production.

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The Gaia Center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients

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across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as

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coaching for clients worldwide.

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For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit gaia center.co

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or find us on Instagram at the Gaia Center and at, but For Real Pod,

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but for Real is intended for education in entertainment and is not a

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substitute for mental health treatment.

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Also, since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we

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are not shy here about sharing our opinions on everything from snacks and

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movies to politicians and social issues.

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Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

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See you next time.

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Bestie.

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About the Podcast

But For Real
Welcome to But For Real: the podcast where all your swirling thoughts about mental health, pop culture, and how to human are blended into one delicious variety show, co-hosted by therapists Valerie Martin (resident elder millennial ✌️) and Emerson Ryder (resident Gen Z 🫶).

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Valerie Martin